PS1/2 Why might this burned game be failing?

[godreborn]

Especially the older PSX models where they originally used a plastic mechanism instead of a die-cast one, in which most of the time they always fail.

I had both a ps1 and 2 suffer from dre, disc read error, and I was legit. I've heard burned discs strain the laser even more.

 

[Drambit]

Especially the older PSX models where they originally used a plastic mechanism instead of a die-cast one, in which most of the time they always fail.

This is one of those slim PS1 models that came out later. Probably doesn't change that much though.

 

[SylverReZ]

This is one of those slim PS1 models that came out later. Probably doesn't change that much though.

You can actually replace the dying laser with one from a PSone slim, re-calibrating it all that kind of stuff. alexfree has a great repair guide here: https://alex-free.github.io/unofficial-ps1-cd-drive-service-manual/

 

[KleinesSinchen]

he disc past both the Nero DiskSpeed check and the Imgburn ISO verification with 100%, 0 errors.

100% quality with C1/C2 test? That's awesome (but would be perfectly normal for simple read test)
My Spyro 1 CD-R copy doesn't reach such values at all

Spoiler: Result (Spyro 1) and a good one for a CD-R

C1 errors are normal on any CD, but if you get many C2 errors it isn't a good sign.

Despite this pleasant result and the CD-R here being a Verbatim (manufacturer string Taiyo Yuden) my PS1 and PS2 consoles don't like these discs at all. Cyanine material dye. There is nothing wrong with the blanks. They work on all PC drives and DVD players and whatnot. But the PlayStations don't like them. →

I've started this backup disc on the PS1 I received yesterday (drive is extremely weak). Played only five minutes as I have to leave now. Results:

• Far too long loading times between levels
• Freeing a dragon seemingly freezes the game – stuck in repeating animation where pieces from the crystal fly away – after long time the voice message is played
• After the voice message it sometimes freezes again, until the music track can continue

No fatal errors, no stuttering sound while just playing a level.

 

[SylverReZ]

100% quality with C1/C2 test? That's awesome (but would be perfectly normal for simple read test)
My Spyro 1 CD-R copy doesn't reach such values at all

Spoiler: Result (Spyro 1) and a good one for a CD-R

C1 errors are normal on any CD, but if you get many C2 errors it isn't a good sign.
View attachment 344875

Despite this pleasant result and the CD-R here being a Verbatim (manufacturer string Taiyo Yuden) my PS1 and PS2 consoles don't like these discs at all. Cyanine material dye. There is nothing wrong with the blanks. They work on all PC drives and DVD players and whatnot. But the PlayStations don't like them. →

I've started this backup disc on the PS1 I received yesterday (drive is extremely weak). Played only five minutes as I have to leave now. Results:

• Far too long loading times between levels
• Freeing a dragon seemingly freezes the game – stuck in repeating animation where pieces from the crystal fly away – after long time the voice message is played
• After the voice message it sometimes freezes again, until the music track can continue

No fatal errors, no stuttering sound while just playing a level.

Perhaps its your PS1's disc drive that's going funny and is not the disc itself. Try re-calibrating the laser using the guide that I have linked previously.

 

[Jayro]

Another thing that people don't take into consideration is disc degradation. CDs and DVDs will eventually degrade over many years. I've had cheap CD-Rs get pits and flake off on the data laters just from being stored, not in use.

 

[SylverReZ]

I've had cheap CD-Rs get puts and flake off on the data laters just from being stored

Same. That's something to take note of.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

Perhaps its your PS1's disc drive that's going funny and is not the disc itself. Try re-calibrating the laser using the guide that I have linked previously.

For this test, indeed, the drive is the culprit. I chose the weak drive on purpose to see if I get some stuttering in Spyro 1 as well.

Strangely I get overall better results in all PS1/2 (together ten consoles) with Pthalocyanine than with Cyanine or Azo. I. Don't. Know. Why!? →

The disc used in this test works perfectly in other consoles… hard to describe. The drives are a bit louder, load times a bit longer than normal, and sometimes it take two tries to get a Cyanine disc detected with otherwise perfectly working PlayStation drives. My failures with Swap Magic on the PS2 were also the same Cyanine Verbatim.

[…] I wonder if it's just some slight wobble in the disc caused by slightly off center paper label that is causing the problem. This doesn't seem to cause any issue in some of my other games with slightly off center labels.

That is more likely to cause issues on very high rotation speed – which a PS1 doesn't have. Having an imbalance is stress for the spindle motor/mechanical parts, but to a certain extent the drives must tolerate it by specification (while keeping the the laser beam in focus following the data track – CD drives are a masterpiece of 1970s engineering in optics, mechanics and electronics)
A small imbalance should be fine on PS1 as long as you don't torture your drives with Shape CDs

Spoiler: like this obscure, useless thing

Another thing that people don't take into consideration is disc degradation. CDs and DVDs will eventually degrade over many years. I've had cheap CD-Rs get pits and flake off on the data laters just from being stored, not in use.

Yeah, what is that about?! I've seen such things as well. Somebody had stored some CD-R for years and finally gave them to me: "Please burn some copies of my expensive audio CDs for the car stereo". After writing the discs, they had literal holes visible to the naked eye in the data layer.

Spoiler: No questions asked

This won't be the case here though – such a copy wouldn't even pass the normal read test literally missing complete areas.
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Lastly, here are some pictures for comparison to show why C1/C2 error test is much more meaningful than just "IMGBurn checked the CD after burning".

Package of some gold CD-R – tested by a PC magazine in 1998 – so certainly not new stuff and the corresponding analysis. That is as close I ever came to an almost zero error CD. It contains Spyro 3 and runs very smooth even on the pretty bad PS1.


For comparison a picture of a damaged legit PlayStation 1 game (007 The World is not enough). It wasn't working (read error in all of my PC drives) when I got it. This is the disc I will eventually destroy, but I wanted to copy it before doing this. After resurfacing it, the CD now has a million tiny scratches, rather than the few big and fatal ones. There are literally 10000s of C1 errors, but everything is fully readable. As the green line shows: Even at maximum speed (starting at about 18x going to about 46x)

It looks horrible, but this is all within the limits (not even a single C2 error). No working drive should complain or throw read errors at the user. Guess what the consoles do… game boots, but the load times are horrible and it could very well throw DRE at some point (played only 30 minutes).

 

[Drambit]

For this test, indeed, the drive is the culprit. I chose the weak drive on purpose to see if I get some stuttering in Spyro 1 as well.

Strangely I get overall better results in all PS1/2 (together ten consoles) with Pthalocyanine than with Cyanine or Azo. I. Don't. Know. Why!? →

The disc used in this test works perfectly in other consoles… hard to describe. The drives are a bit louder, load times a bit longer than normal, and sometimes it take two tries to get a Cyanine disc detected with otherwise perfectly working PlayStation drives. My failures with Swap Magic on the PS2 were also the same Cyanine Verbatim.



That is more likely to cause issues on very high rotation speed – which a PS1 doesn't have. Having an imbalance is stress for the spindle motor/mechanical parts, but to a certain extent the drives must tolerate it by specification (while keeping the the laser beam in focus following the data track – CD drives are a masterpiece of 1970s engineering in optics, mechanics and electronics)
A small imbalance should be fine on PS1 as long as you don't torture your drives with Shape CDs

Spoiler: like this obscure, useless thing

Yeah, what is that about?! I've seen such things as well. Somebody had stored some CD-R for years and finally gave them to me: "Please burn some copies of my expensive audio CDs for the car stereo". After writing the discs, they had literal holes visible to the naked eye in the data layer.

Spoiler: No questions asked

This won't be the case here though – such a copy wouldn't even pass the normal read test literally missing complete areas.
=============
=============

Lastly, here are some pictures for comparison to show why C1/C2 error test is much more meaningful than just "IMGBurn checked the CD after burning".

Package of some gold CD-R – tested by a PC magazine in 1998 – so certainly not new stuff and the corresponding analysis. That is as close I ever came to an almost zero error CD. It contains Spyro 3 and runs very smooth even on the pretty bad PS1.
View attachment 344894 View attachment 344892

For comparison a picture of a damaged legit PlayStation 1 game (007 The World is not enough). It wasn't working (read error in all of my PC drives) when I got it. This is the disc I will eventually destroy, but I wanted to copy it before doing this. After resurfacing it, the CD now has a million tiny scratches, rather than the few big and fatal ones. There are literally 10000s of C1 errors, but everything is fully readable. As the green line shows: Even at maximum speed (starting at about 18x going to about 46x)
View attachment 344893
It looks horrible, but this is all within the limits (not even a single C2 error). No working drive should complain or throw read errors at the user. Guess what the consoles do… game boots, but the load times are horrible and it could very well throw DRE at some point (played only 30 minutes).

I don't understand how you are running this test. I just went to the surface scan section and clicked test.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

I don't understand how you are running this test. I just went to the surface scan section and clicked test.

The tab "Disc Quality" only appears when selecting an optical drive supporting the special functions.
ScanDisc / surface scan has a checkbox for C1/C2 errors as well – but it will be greyed out for most drives.

Note that Nero can't use the special functions for old "real" Plextor drives. Use PlexTools or the open source QPxTool instead.

 

[Drambit]

Looks like my burned Metal Gear Solid disk is stalling too. The playstation is making noise though, I'll try greasing the motor before I replace anything.

 

[Drambit]

UPDATE: I oiled the motors and greased the gears/rails on the laser assembly, raised the voltage from about 10.4mv to 11.5, and BAM, those two games run good as new (for now). Huge W.