Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

[Delerious]

Huh... I see this thread is still going strong and that it's turned into another "right vs left" thread.

 

[FAST6191]

The pile of strawmen you've thrown our way is so vast that finding a needle in it would be a Herculean effort.
All we're saying is that systemic racism (and by extension white privilege) are major problems.
We're not asking you to ignore any other major problems.
We're asking you to accept that this is one, and stop complaining about the laughably small amount of effort it takes to RECOGNIZE THAT IT IS A THING THAT EXISTS AND SHOULDN'T, and that your prior ignorance of it was likely due to having said privilege yourself.
It's as simple as "ok yeah that's a problem, I'll try to take it into account when looking at a situation that might involve it".
The sheer amount of willful ignorance, deliberate denial, strawmen and distraction you've displayed rather than accept that a problem exists and that internal bias may have prevented you from noticing it is a BAFFLING new level of stubborn. (And considering how obstinate I can get at times, that's saying a lot.)

You keep using terms like strawmen but I am not sure we follow the same definitions there, or at least I am in no way aiming to set them up. Don't know if this is some kind of dismissal tactic.

You can see whatever problems are out there as major problems; "tragedy is I cut my finger, comedy is you fall down a well and die" and all that.

As far as "if I were in charge and actually aiming to make things better" then tackling racism is so far down on the list it barely ranks, and likely cured by happy accident as part of my would be solution. I reckon I can also make a convincing argument for doing that from an economical, pragmatic and generally good deed perspective too. Further than that if I were to wave a magic wand and all racial supremacists vanish or change their ways, and all laws and institutional policies that actively, tacitly or otherwise by dint of their construction keep people of races down within the US... would barely tweak the needle in terms of life outcomes, poverty rates, job application success, education outcomes and whatever other metrics. 50 and beyond years ago, far different game. Today, largely a solved issue there. The whole "started out with nothing and still got most of it left" thing being somewhat more prevalent as some function of history, would also be solved by solving poverty as a general concept but also seemingly a largely solved or solvable issue even within the present framework and demonstrably is for many many many people (social mobility is very much a thing many enjoy). Could be faster, could be more targetted, could be more efficient/less wasteful, would be nicer to be more sustainable/self funding (give or take the pathological desire for no US government program to actually earn money and idea that simple handouts are a good plan in a lot of cases), could identify problems sooner... but so could everything.

If thinking in terms of privilege helps you frame your ideas, possibly create some of that wonderful guilt at being alive to in turn flagellate yourself silly, then so it goes. From where I sit it is an imaginary concept, a mental focus, a muse, and not a very good one. Using it would frame problems poorly, have minimal predictive or explanatory power and also ignore vast swathes of other data that also exists within the same frame. If you operate within it then you are likely to draw poor outcomes, dismiss useful people, make your life generally worse, possibly make the lives of those that have done no ill deeds worse, and all for little benefit to you or others.
To attempt to browbeat someone into thinking it the way of the world and no less real than the idea of something like supply and demand sits about as well as doing the same for any random religion you care to pick. That it is invisible to all but the most virtuous or that make the... if you like Greek philosophy then Sisyphean effort to believe in it (always be checking, and if you think you comprehend it then you probably haven't, and all that) further drawing parallels to religious thinking from where I sit.
At one point in history it might have had more merit, and does in various places in the world at present. As far as something useful that I would care to adopt and get others to adopt as a mindset... not even close and indeed falling into active opposition.

Will continue if you want but we still seem to be getting nowhere.

To that end

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/
That lists currently active house bills. What do people think of the things there?

The big ones for many
H.R. 127
An alteration to the firearms ownership and registration laws. Quite a considerable upheaval in a few ways as well, arguably with an aim towards restriction rather than reconsidering things.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/hr127

(3)

Database
(A)

In general

The Attorney General shall establish and maintain a database of all firearms registered pursuant to this subsection.
(B)

Access

The Attorney General shall make the contents of the database accessible to all members of the public, all Federal, State, and local law enforcement authorities, all branches of the United States Armed Forces, and all State and local governments, as defined by the Bureau.


(c)

Licensing system
(1)

Requirements
(A)

General license

Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, the Attorney General shall issue to an individual a license to possess a firearm and ammunition if the individual—
(i)

has attained 21 years of age;
(ii)

after applying for the license—
(I)

undergoes a criminal background check conducted by the national instant criminal background check system established under section 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, and the check does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the individual would violate subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 or State law;
(II)

undergoes a psychological evaluation conducted in accordance with paragraph (2), and the evaluation does not indicate that the individual is psychologically unsuited to possess a firearm; and
(III)

successfully completes a training course, certified by the Attorney General, in the use, safety, and storage of firearms, that includes at least 24 hours of training; and
(iii)

demonstrates that, on issuance of the license, the individual will have in effect an insurance policy issued under subsection (d).

Age is quite a jump over what it is right now
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/minimum-age-gun-sales-and-transfers
Section 6 also notes the need for fairly frequent renewal. It does also say accessible to members of the public for the would be database.
Bullets covered later. Not allowed anything larger than a 50 cal it seems.

H.R. 1
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/hr1
Fairly serious alterations to voting registration, voting, campaign finance and more besides.

It also reckons the so called Green act https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/hr848/text is popular. It deals with credits/incentives provided by the government for various renewable fuel sources, though different to a few places in the world.

Afraid I will leave you to find your own summaries or read the whole thing if you want. Do bear in mind summaries might be biased in various different ways so primary sources (which you have there) is good stuff, as is actually getting into the wording rather than providing the summary.

 

[Foxi4]

I love the concern trolling in regards to Trump. A quick reality check tells me that not one of you will ever be as rich as Trump will be when he's "poor".

 

[Hanafuda]

Well, that escalated uncomfortably quickly. It's hard to remember so many people in this thread, but at this point I'm assuming you're a Trumper trying to straw-man us into looking stupid.

Though there is a significantly less dark solution here: education. People are substantially less likely to believe baseless nonsense if they've received prior education that in some way disproves said nonsense!

"Trumper"? No, but I'm sure most of you extremists (which you are, from my perspective anyway, you just don't know it) think so. Trump's a narcissistic shithead, and not a special one. But I've seen a lot of Presidents come and go (I'm 53yo) and every one leaving behind a bigger hole in the ground instead of making any improvements, so I wanted him to get a fair shake at causing a little ruckus. Neither the entrenched Democrats or establishment Republicans ever gave him a chance to really enact his slate of ideas, the biggest one for me being infrastructure investment. But we still saw a period of unemployment lowering across all demographics, fuel supply independence, progress against being raped in trade by China and progress towards a lasting peace in the Middle East, and government getting out of the way of free enterprise and the American peoples' right to pursue happiness from 2017-2020 as we have never seen before in my lifetime. Then, 2020 was a shitshow. Everyone in government performed poorly, don't try to tell me any different. And the rest of us huddled in our homes and kvetched over how they weren't doing it right. So yes, I thought Trump was still the better choice last fall, but here we are now. I hope Biden improves this country for all Americans, but I expect it is much more likely we're back to the 'normal' that I know, i.e. par for the course US politics as it has been since the 60's. Not good, but the machine obviously wants it that way.

In Japan there's an old saying, "the nail that sticks up shall be hammered down." If the last 4 years hasn't shown you how true that is, then you're incapable of learning.

And BTW, I've had quite sufficient education and life experience to form cogent, informed opinions, thank you.

When I see people willing to throw out parts of the Constitution, radically change how elections are conducted to make audit and verification impossible, pack the Supreme Court, impose economic and social punishment on anyone who expresses dissent, all to seize power and silence opposition and make sure it stays that way, I know what type movement I'm looking at.

Have a nice day.

 

[Plasmaster09]

When I see people willing to throw out parts of the Constitution, radically change how elections are conducted to make audit and verification impossible, pack the Supreme Court, impose economic and social punishment on anyone who expresses dissent, all to seize power and silence opposition and make sure it stays that way, I know what type movement I'm looking at.

Let's run through this list of bullshit.
1) "Throw out" and "amend" are very different things. The Constitution was made amendable from the start so that things could be changed or fixed when necessary.
2) What? How would "change things so that popular vote actually matters" do either of those things?
3) Since when did we try to pack the Supreme Court? We certainly didn't cram in an extra member a month before a general election, against reason, our own previous objections to a lesser case thereof and the dying wishes of their predecessor, did we?
4) We're not "imposing" anything. If someone performs actions, they suffer the consequences of those actions. Be an asshole? Congrats, a lot less people will like you or want to buy your shit.
5) "All to seize power and silence opposition"? What the fuck has even IMPLIED that is the goal here?
You've proven you are in fact a Trumper, and one of the worse ones to boot.
Also... Extremists? What? Nobody on this thread is all that extremely left, and I'm pretty moderate. Trump and his goons are just so off-the-scale batshit crazy that basically everything seems extremely left in comparison.
Not everything vaguely opposed to your political views is some sinister takeover attempt by lunatics with Orwellian intent.

 

[Hanafuda]

Let's run through this list of bullshit.
1) "Throw out" and "amend" are very different things. The Constitution was made amendable from the start so that things could be changed or fixed when necessary.
2) What? How would "change things so that popular vote actually matters" do either of those things?
3) Since when did we try to pack the Supreme Court? We certainly didn't cram in an extra member a month before a general election, against reason, our own previous objections to a lesser case thereof and the dying wishes of their predecessor, did we?
4) We're not "imposing" anything. If someone performs actions, they suffer the consequences of those actions. Be an asshole? Congrats, a lot less people will like you or want to buy your shit.
5) "All to seize power and silence opposition"? What the fuck has even IMPLIED that is the goal here?
You've proven you are in fact a Trumper, and one of the worse ones to boot.
Also... Extremists? What? Nobody on this thread is all that extremely left, and I'm pretty moderate. Trump and his goons are just so off-the-scale batshit crazy that basically everything seems extremely left in comparison.
Not everything vaguely opposed to your political views is some sinister takeover attempt by lunatics with Orwellian intent.

sure, ok.

 

[Valwinz]

I love the concern trolling in regards to Trump. A quick reality check tells me that not one of you will ever be as rich as Trump will be when he's "poor".

Looking for someone to give me a small loan of 1,400 dollars

Can't it have both? Can't they be related?

It would appear that the problem with poverty is there is a large chunk of people don't like the idea of helping those who don't "deserve it", with each person having their own definition of what that is based on their own prejudice.



Because you have it. It's like breathing, you only think about it when it's not there.

The UK is racist did you fix your racism issue yet ?

 

[Foxi4]

sure, ok.

The term "extreme left" lost its meaning as of late, not so much because it's any less extreme, but because anything right of Obama is now considered fascism. In fact, every now and then I hear murmurs that even good old Barack wasn't woke enough to meet today's standards. They can't see the lack of any tolerance for opposing points of view because leftism is not a system of political thought, it's a religion. If you're conservative, you're not wrong - you are evil. Your point of view isn't different, it's malicious. You're not a discussion companion, you're an enemy. Trying to reason with anyone when these are the terms of engagement is a wasted effort.

 

[Plasmaster09]

The term "extreme left" lost its meaning as of late, not so much because it's any less extreme, but because anything right of Obama is now considered fascism. In fact, every now and then I hear murmurs that even good old Barack wasn't woke enough to meet today's standards. They can't see the lack of any tolerance for opposing points of view because leftism is not a system of political thought, it's a religion. If you're conservative, you're not wrong - you are evil. Your point of view isn't different, it's malicious. You're not a discussion companion, you're an enemy. Trying to reason with anyone when these are the terms of engagement is a wasted effort.

Projecting much?
I'm fine discussing with Republicans.
However, Trump and his truckload of lies are something I simply cannot stand, and the constant and irrational defense thereof borders on a personality cult.

also wow "leftism is a religion and they think everything right of obama is fascist" is probably the shittiest take I've seen this month

 

[MurraySkull]

Projecting much?
I'm fine discussing with Republicans.
However, Trump and his truckload of lies are something I simply cannot stand, and the constant and irrational defense thereof borders on a personality cult.

also wow "leftism is a religion and they think everything right of obama is fascist" is probably the shittiest take I've seen this month

What lies?

 

[Plasmaster09]

What lies?

Too many to list on my own, but here's a handy article.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...04b69a-5c1d-11eb-a976-bad6431e03e2_story.html
Literal tens of thousands of falsehoods.

 

[tabzer]

Too many to list on my own, but here's a handy article.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...04b69a-5c1d-11eb-a976-bad6431e03e2_story.html
Literal tens of thousands of falsehoods.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ump-untruths-is-about-25-fake-news-2019-04-29

That's about it when it was 10,000. I think the question is more about how you were hurt by one of Trump's "lies".

I'll start. He didn't drain the swamp. Hillary isn't in jail. Terrible show.

 

[KingVamp]

"Leftism is a religion." Because we didn't just have Trump people attack the Capitol based on lies and wanted to do things like hang members of their own party.

 

[tabzer]

"Leftism is a religion." Because we didn't just have Trump people attack the Capitol based on lies and wanted to do things like hang members of their own party.

The lie is that Trump people attacked the capitol. If you watched his unedited videos, you can see that it was the media trying to stir violence and not Trump. The people who paid more attention to the media were more apt to do something like that than those who actually listened to Trump.

 

[Plasmaster09]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ump-untruths-is-about-25-fake-news-2019-04-29

That's about it when it was 10,000. I think the question is more about how you were hurt by one of Trump's "lies".

I'll start. He didn't drain the swamp. Hillary isn't in jail. Terrible show.

If you extrapolate that same percentage, you're still left with around 22,500 lies in the span of one term.
If Trump was Pinocchio, his nose would be in another galaxy by now.

The lie is that Trump people attacked the capitol. If you watched his unedited videos, you can see that it was the media trying to stir violence and not Trump. The people who paid more attention to the media were more apt to do something like that than those who actually listened to Trump.

Excuse me, what?
Trump told his supporters the election was stolen and that they have to fight like hell to "fix" it.
The Capitol riot was a mob of Trumpnuts, plenty of which said after the fact that they joined the riot because Trump told them to.

 

[tabzer]

If you extrapolate that same percentage, you're still left with around 22,500 lies in the span of one term.
If Trump was Pinocchio, his nose would be in another galaxy by now.

You caught the low hanging fruit, now tell us about how you counted on one of Trump's promises and were let down.

 

[WeedZ]

You caught the low hanging fruit, now tell us about how you counted on one of Trump's promises and were let down.

"It'll go away like a miracle"

 

[tabzer]

"It'll go away like a miracle"

Yeah, I'm waiting on that too.

 

[WeedZ]

Yeah, I'm waiting on that too.

"I'll release my new amazing healthcare plan in 2 weeks"

 

[tabzer]

Excuse me, what?
Trump told his supporters the election was stolen and that they have to fight like hell to "fix" it.
The Capitol riot was a mob of Trumpnuts, plenty of which said after the fact that they joined the riot because Trump told them to.

Obviously you didn't have the attention span to watch this simple video. He literally says "in the primaries". This is exactly what I mean by the media instigating it.