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Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

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Lacius

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It's ad hominem to dismiss the substance because of whatever he claims about the character posting it. It's an angle. The guy who posted it is biased. But what he posted is proof that Trump's quotes are being manipulated with the intention of provoking violence.
It's not an ad hominem to acknowledge bias and not look at the allegedly biased source because of the alleged bias. It's only an ad hominem if he's saying an argument is wrong because of the bias of the source, but he didn't do that.

It is a fallacy fallacy to say an argument is wrong because there's a logical fallacy, particularly when there isn't actually a fallacy.

Also, the video does not show any manipulation of what was presented during the impeachment.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I'm not saying that it is wrong. I have done that too.


You are right in a way, because the poster didn't make the argument. He "re-tweeted" the argument. If the poster was making the argument, but some jerk decided that the evidence was useless because of the guy's political affiliation, then lol--what are you disputing?




So you are saying that the fact that Trump specifically said "how" to "fight" is irrelevant because he said "fight"?
If you're not saying it's wrong to go after what you call "low hanging fruit" then stop whining about it and using it as a deflection.
 
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tabzer

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It's not an ad hominem to acknowledge bias and not look at the allegedly biased source because of the alleged bias.

That specifically is a form of ad hominem. A neutral party would look at the evidence, with the understanding that it could be slanted due to the publisher's interest, and then find out how. A skeptic would consider the presence of bias, and still investigate, even without being prompted to do so. Someone who is afraid of losing something, due to their bias, would try to encourage others to ignore the source.


Also, the video does not show any manipulation of what was presented during the impeachment.

It demonstrated how Trump's words were purposely edited with the intention of creating violence. I can't say that the videos that it shows that were doctored were the same videos that were presented in the case. Maybe they were. It's more pertinent to the fact that people here are still quoting those exact moments without the understanding that there was more to it, as @Plasmaster09 had demonstrated.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If you're not saying it's wrong to go after what you call "low hanging fruit" then stop whining about it and using it as a deflection.

Point out where I whined. I was glad, bully.
 

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Point out where I whined. I was glad, bully.
This one sentence perfectly sums up your entire argument. You're a bait-happy troll eager to throw low hanging fruit our way, blame us for it when we tear it to shreds, practically piss yourself whining when we call you out on it and then have the audacity to call us bullies for doing so.
 
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Projecting much?
I'm fine discussing with Republicans.
However, Trump and his truckload of lies are something I simply cannot stand, and the constant and irrational defense thereof borders on a personality cult.

also wow "leftism is a religion and they think everything right of obama is fascist" is probably the shittiest take I've seen this month
It's 100% a religion, the left-wing has replaced God with government and now worship it. Whatever ails you, government is the answer, it should probably take care of it. Everything right of Obama *is* considered fascist - there are full-on op eds about how Obama was a conservative in disguise because he supported public healthcare options or immigration reform, lest we forget who *actually* started building physical barriers at the border, or increased deportations and detentions to an 11. Obama's positions are inadequate for the modern political left, they're "republican talking points" now. We're well into the universal healthcare only and open borders territory now. The Overton Window has shifted in terms of policy and previously common sense positions are now called authoritarian. Supporting those common sense positions makes you a fascist. That's the vibe I'm getting from the modern left - discourse is dead, everybody just calls right-wingers "nazis" while the right-wingers respond in kind by calling left-wingers socialists/communists. It's kind of sad that establishing any form of dialogue in which the goal would be finding a golden mean instead of expecting either side to capitulate is basically impossible, I haven't seen the two sides come to any kind of actual compromise in years.
 

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That specifically is a form of ad hominem. A neutral party would look at the evidence, with the understanding that it could be slanted due to the publisher's interest, and then find out how. A skeptic would consider the presence of bias, and still investigate, even without being prompted to do so. Someone who is afraid of losing something, due to their bias, would try to encourage others to ignore the source.




It demonstrated how Trump's words were purposely edited with the intention of creating violence. I can't say that the videos that it shows that were doctored were the same videos that were presented in the case. Maybe they were. It's more pertinent to the fact that people here are still quoting those exact moments without the understanding that there was more to it, as @Plasmaster09 had demonstrated.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Point out where I whined. I was glad, bully.
What you think neutral parties should or shouldn't be doing is irrelevant to whether or not it's a logical fallacy. If it's anything other than "the argument is wrong because X," it's not an ad hominem, by definition.

Trump's words were not purposefully edited for any purpose. Trump is to blame for the violence. I've already explained how we know this.

Virtually every time you complained about people addressing your low hanging fruit was you whining about it.

It's 100% a religion, the left-wing has replaced God with government and now worship it. Whatever ails you, government is the answer, it should probably take care of it. Everything right of Obama *is* considered fascist - there are full-on op eds about how Obama was a conservative in disguise because he supported public healthcare options or immigration reform, lest we forget who *actually* started building physical barriers at the border, or increased deportations and detentions to an 11. Obama's positions are inadequate for the modern political left, they're "republican talking points" now. We're well into the universal healthcare only and open borders territory now. The Overton Window has shifted in terms of policy and previously common sense positions are now called authoritarian. Supporting those common sense positions makes you a fascist. That's the vibe I'm getting from the modern left - discourse is dead, everybody just calls right-wingers "nazis" while the right-wingers respond in kind by calling left-wingers socialists/communists. It's kind of sad that establishing any form of dialogue in which the goal would be finding a golden mean instead of expecting either side to capitulate is basically impossible, I haven't seen the two sides come to any kind of actual compromise in years.
You don't know what a religion is, or you don't know what it means to be a liberal, progressive, etc. Virtually everything you listed here as a description of how "leftists" feel is not how I feel, for example. Don't be a disingenuous asshole.
 
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Foxi4

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You don't know what a religion is, or you don't know what it means to be a liberal, progressive, etc. Virtually everything you listed here as a description of how "leftists" feel is not how I feel, for example. Don't be a disingenuous asshole.
I was unaware that you feel anything at all, to be fair. It's obviously a generalisation, the vibe I get from the political left at large, which I've specified as my own. I still have productive conversations with those who aren't too far gone, but they're few and far between.

I am also incapable of not being an asshole. You don't have to respond, nobody is forcing you, you choose to do so.
 
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It's obviously a generalisation, the vibe I get from the political left at large, which I've specified as my own.
Your overgeneralization is made-up nonsense. You should probably learn that your gut feeling isn't actually indicative of the truth of the matter.

If you want to talk about blind devotion to political ideology and Donald Trump, as well as the conspiratorial, dogmatic, and faith-based thinking shared by a lot of people on the political right (the right-wing is inherently socially conservative and religiously dogmatic in the United States, after all), we can talk about American conservatism if you want.

I am also incapable of not being an asshole.
The fact that you think that's okay is a problem. I hope you know that.

You don't have to respond, nobody is forcing you, you choose to do so.
And nobody is forcing you to be a disingenuous asshole, but here we are. I also didn't claim to regret responding to you. I'm not sure why you're acting like it's my fault you're an asshole.
 
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Plasmaster09

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I was unaware that you feel anything at all, to be fair. It's obviously a generalisation, the vibe I get from the political left at large, which I've specified as my own. I still have productive conversations with those who aren't too far gone, but they're few and far between.

I am also incapable of not being an asshole. You don't have to respond, nobody is forcing you, you choose to do so.
I still have productive conversations with those who aren't too far down the alt-right rabbit hole, but they're few and far between.
Pity, I thought you were one of those few... but then you came up with the worst takes this side of Q or Greene.
(No rhyme intended.)
 

Foxi4

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The fact that you think that's okay is a problem. I hope you know that.
Never been anything other than an advantage to me, I'm quite happy the way I am, thank you.
I still have productive conversations with those who aren't too far down the alt-right rabbit hole, but they're few and far between.
Pity, I thought you were one of those few... but then you came up with the worst takes this side of Q or Greene.
(No rhyme intended.)
Didn't need to wait long for an example.

"Obama's policy prescriptions are considered republican talking points nowadays."
"Wow, you're a Q-anon freak."

Couldn't plan this any better if I tried. The line to the pearl store grows ever longer as the clutching intensifies.
 

Lacius

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Never been anything other than an advantage to me, I'm quite happy the way I am, thank you.
Didn't need to wait long for an example.

"Obama's policy prescriptions are considered republican talking points nowadays."
"Wow, you're a Q-anon freak."

Couldn't plan this any better if I tried. The line to the pearl store grows ever longer as the clutching intensifies.
A person who is happy being a disingenuous asshole, a person who is uninterested in self-improvement, is probably a person who can't be trusted to look at things objectively nor admit to being wrong.
 

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Never been anything other than an advantage to me, I'm quite happy the way I am, thank you.
Didn't need to wait long for an example.

"Obama's policy prescriptions are considered republican talking points nowadays."
"Wow, you're a Q-anon freak."

Couldn't plan this any better if I tried. The line to the pearl store grows ever longer as the clutching intensifies.
No, I'm referring to "they view everything right of Obama as fascist" and "they've become a religion". That shit's just nuts.
 
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Foxi4

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A person who is happy being a disingenuous asshole, a person who is uninterested in self-improvement, is probably a person who can't be trusted to look at things objectively nor admit to being wrong.
Oh, trust me, I am in constant pursuit of new and inventive ways to be a more effective asshole - I've been on a path of self-improvement since the day I was born and take much pride in it. What I'm uninterested in is getting life advice from complete strangers online who, for all intents and purposes, should mind their own business rather than point out what they perceive as a character flaw. I didn't ask you for advice.
No, I'm referring to "they view everything right of Obama as fascist" and "they've become a religion". That shit's just nuts.
There's a prevailing sentiment that Republicans at large, or conservatives in general, are fascists. This sentiment has now reached new heights in recent history as now even libertarians, who de facto dislike the federal government, are considered to be "authoritarian", which is the antithesis of their being.

Regarding the comment on the government being a religion, people do expect it to solve all of their life's issues. There's an expectation that the government should give people prescriptions on how to live their lives, especially in times of the pandemic, and prop them up for some reason. We have about 97 new permutations of the word "justice" and the federal government is supposed to pursue all of them simultaneously - justice doesn't need an adjective put in front of it, and yet here we are. Couple that with debt forgiveness, from student loans all the way to medical treatment cost forgiveness and it's, slowly but surely, starting to resemble a nanny state that's intended to tend to your every need. I can understand the argument for debt forgiveness - the government bails out Wall Street all day, let's get a bag too. I simply think the conclusion is wrong - perhaps the government *shouldn't* bail out anyone. It's not the government's business, and neither is social engineering.

The government is indeed worshipped - just look at popular headlines in recent memory. We had a literal "Idoguration" in January with people fawning over *the first dog of the United States*, there are paper hearts on the White House lawn covered in platitudes as if a middle-aged single woman with 9 cats lived there, and people are cheering. I know about these two events, but I *don't* know what the government's timeline for COVID relief is - that's a problem.

I'm not entirely sure how to better explain to you that the cult of personality issue isn't limited to MAGA. If you didn't like what you saw on the right for the last 4-5 years, don't fall for the same thing happening on the left today. Then again, we're discussing it a bit late - a good couple of presidencies late.
 

Lacius

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Oh, trust me, I am in constant pursuit of new and inventive ways to be a more effective asshole - I've been on a path of self-improvement since the day I was born and take much pride in it.
Wanting to be more of an asshole is not self improvement, and the fact that you think that's okay is a problem. I hope you know that.

What I'm uninterested in is getting life advice from complete strangers online who, for all intents and purposes, should mind their own business rather than point out what they perceive as a character flaw.
Being an asshole, wanting to be an asshole, and wanting to become more of an asshole, are character flaws. I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for you. If you're truly uninterested though, "you don't have to respond, nobody is forcing you, you choose to do so."

There's a prevailing sentiment that Republicans at large, or conservatives in general, are fascists.
Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism, and that's where Donald Trump took the Republican Party. I'm sorry of that's inconvenient for you.

I'm not saying all conservatives are fascists, but Donald Trump absolutely displayed fascist tendencies, and anyone who supports him and his fascism is complicit.

And before you respond, I don't use the word "fascism" lightly. If you're goal is to argue that Donald Trump didn't exhibit fascism, you're probably not going to like where the conversation inevitably goes, although I doubt you'll ever concede anything.
 

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Regarding the comment on the government being a religion, people do expect it to solve all of their life's issues. There's an expectation that the government should give people prescriptions on how to live their lives, especially in times of the pandemic, and prop them up for some reason. have about 97 new permutations of the word "justice" and the federal government is supposed to pursue all of them simultaneously - justice doesn't need an adjective put in front of it, and yet here we are. Couple that with debt forgiveness, from student loans all the way to medical treatment cost forgiveness and it's, slowly but surely, starting to resemble a nanny state that's intended to tend to your every need. I can understand the argument for debt forgiveness - the government bails out Wall Street all day, let's get a bag too. I simply think the conclusion is wrong - perhaps the government *shouldn't* bail out anyone. It's not the government's business, and neither is social engineering.
The government serves the people, as it IS (or at least should be) the people or a representation of what they want.
If the government can prevent people from drowning in student loans or medical debt without risking collapsing in debt itself, there are zero good reasons for it not to do so.
"Nanny state" is basically just a conservative snarl word for "the government spends time and effort helping everyone, and as I don't need said help myself and have no sense of socioeconomic empathy, I'm going to automatically believe said time and effort is a pointless waste and not a step in the right direction."
There's a prevailing sentiment that Republicans at large, or conservatives in general, are fascists. This sentiment has now reached new heights in recent history as now even libertarians, who de facto dislike the federal government, are considered to be "authoritarian", which is the antithesis of their being.
I don't know where you got that general of a statement, but that's not what we think.
Conservatives in general have economic and societal ideas that boil down to selfishness, but not to fascism.
However, Trump's tendency to:
-lie his ass off and basically claim he's the best at X, for many values of X
-immediately label anything remotely negative of him as "fake news"
-systematically fire and/or lash out at anyone that says something he doesn't like or disobeys him at any point, including his own Vice President for not doing something he did not have the legal power to do
-hold numerous personal rallies that boil down to him spouting vacuous statements and receiving cheers from a mindless crowd
-do whatever he can to keep himself in power, up to and including indefinitely lying about having won the election
pegs him as having ambitions of egocentric dictatorship a la Kim Jong-Un, as well as:
-his repeated insistence that he would only accept election results if he won
-keeping that promise for once and refusing to accept the results of the 2020 election, as mentioned above
-trying to strong-arm officials into handing him votes that did not exist
-getting his base to try to demand entry to where votes are counted because of his baseless fraud claims
-inflaming his base with rhetoric of how they must fight to "stop the steal" and doing everything short of outright saying "shoot up Congress for me, will ya?"
-watching as his stark-raving-mad followers stormed the Capitol, tweeting a verbal attack on his VP when staff told him said VP was at risk of being attacked by the rioting mob, and refusing to send help or denounce the attacks for days
all boils down to him and his armed mob of idiots demanding access to the counting of votes and the reversal of a rightful election victory because he didn't personally like the results, and if that isn't practically the definition of fascism then I don't know what is.
Republicans in general aren't fascists. Conservatives in general aren't fascists.
Trumpers in general are either fascists or complicit in Trumpian fascism thereof.
 

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Moderators Gone Wild: Election Edition

Watch as someone who is supposed to moderate a massive gaming forum loses credibility and standing as they spout shit takes like, "It's 100% a religion, the left-wing has replaced God with government and now worship it."
Or other classics such as, "... people fawning over *the first dog of the United States*, there are paper hearts on the White House lawn."

This 4 DVD set and more can be yours for the low, low price of losing your sanity while reading their garbage.
 

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Shame on Biden playing Mario kart while people are dying
 

Lacius

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Shame on Biden playing Mario kart while people are dying
https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1361690349698097152
How quickly we forget that many of the COVID-19 deaths this year and last year were avoidable and the fault of Donald Trump's absolutely horrendous response to the pandemic. Fortunately though, things are approving thanks in large part to the Biden administration. Thank you for bring this up so we could acknowledge this. :)
 
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