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New UK Prime Minister. 2022 edition. Liz Truss, conservative.

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FAST6191

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Obviously, yes. It's the UK's working class that needs a boost right now, not the already-rich who profited massively from both the pandemic and the disastrous Brexit. Any spending done in the name of the former can only be beneficial to the economy at this point in time, whereas any spending done for the latter is going to disappear into a black hole of offshore tax havens.
You have a greater faith, unjustified from where I sit, in labour than I do.
The guy literally just asked for who you trusted as sources and like clockwork you just shit out a low effort word salad reply that has no relevance to anything he said. I know your appearances of intellectualism are way more important to you than actually believing something but the only people impressed by this performance are fellow goldwater republicans.
It is a complex answer which is why the response was given. Equally continue to throw around insults, one day you might hit the mark even if only by accident.

It is not like a list of my favourite games, favourite engineering/woodwork/repair channels, game/film/TV reviews, sources of news on homebrew games that a simple list can be made.

I will watch anything and everything, indeed generally suggest it lest you accidentally wind up in an echo chamber. If I need some basic bitch news then despite them being massively agenda driven in their stories, hiring, firing and more, and also what they don't cover, as well as being wrong on so many occasions, I do go on the BBC from time to time, and then spin off into something that might get closer to the reality. Most newspapers being run by ideologues and owned by rich people with their own agenda, to say nothing of the modern trend for the opinion piece and news as entertainment, are similarly troubled, but you can get useful information buried within. There are some interesting meta analysis services and "fact checkers" but you also get the who watches the watchmen problem, and ever constant problem of framing.
If you are going to follow news I figure you get to be the equivalent of a historian but in the modern day and events within that timeframe. Sources generally contain some measure of validity, and even works of fiction if accepted can be the basis of further action. It is a tiring effort but pending some kind of supercomputer that can pipe feeds of a billion things of all angles (massively dystopian as that would be) it is the only way to roll.

Though I will go with the following as an ender
 

Xzi

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You have a greater faith, unjustified from where I sit, in labour than I do.
As does the majority of the country currently, according to recent polling. We all know what the definition of insanity is, right? The Tories clearly aren't willing to try anything new regardless of who they elect as scapegoat, so most people know better than to expect any change in the results their policies produce.
 

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Thought it was a fairly common phrase (perhaps more commonly seen in the phrase "and there's the rub") but might be an older one nowadays.

It means I like those that look for hidden motives (who and whose friends get paid, power, enemies get stymied...), those that look for cons (as in confidence tricks, though downsides is also good), those that look for odd riders if there are any (that is more of a US thing but not unknown outside it) and so forth, in addition to the second and third order effects, "physics say no" and all the other stuff mentioned.

It definitely isn't as new as you think as I googled it and it didn't help! But this does.
Though I will go with the following as an ender

Hard to take him seriously. Politics and party are, or rather were, noble concepts, constantly humiliated in contemporary times by not only the fact they have become a career, as opposed to being a service, but also because literally ANYONE feels entitled to a "spot in the sun". The fall in quality of politics means that people have fallen in quality. This "everyone is the same" nonsense is a lazy excuse of people, like him, who are privileged enough to be able to log off from reality.

Post automatically merged:

I will watch anything and everything, indeed generally suggest it lest you accidentally wind up in an echo chamber. If I need some basic bitch news then despite them being massively agenda driven in their stories, hiring, firing and more, and also what they don't cover, as well as being wrong on so many occasions, I do go on the BBC from time to time, and then spin off into something that might get closer to the reality. Most newspapers being run by ideologues and owned by rich people with their own agenda, to say nothing of the modern trend for the opinion piece and news as entertainment, are similarly troubled, but you can get useful information buried within. There are some interesting meta analysis services and "fact checkers" but you also get the who watches the watchmen problem, and ever constant problem of framing.
If you are going to follow news I figure you get to be the equivalent of a historian but in the modern day and events within that timeframe. Sources generally contain some measure of validity, and even works of fiction if accepted can be the basis of further action. It is a tiring effort but pending some kind of supercomputer that can pipe feeds of a billion things of all angles (massively dystopian as that would be) it is the only way to roll.

Exactly how much spare time do you have, to watch everything and everyone? There's more news people and pundits than diseases these days.
 
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FAST6191

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As does the majority of the country currently, according to recent polling. We all know what the definition of insanity is, right? The Tories clearly aren't willing to try anything new regardless of who they elect as scapegoat, so most people know better than to expect any change in the results their policies produce.

Presuming labour gets in (now or 18 months matters little) then that would seem like the basis to have a little wager to see if in 5 years that the UK is a shining beacon to all, ready to kick off empire round 2 (or maybe 3 depending upon how you want to view French holdings 1000 years ago).

I just don't see it though. They have had power before, not much useful happened, they have had local power with serious resources in many places before, still nothing. All the excesses and stupidity of the Tories then Labour wanted to go in on more (more spending, more debt, harder lockdowns, harsher restrictions, more to the Ukraine) so far from the paragons of fiscal responsibility.
Same all over the world, and indeed within the UK (SNP is basically labour, has a mandate, has a lot of power (about the only thing they can't do is start wars) and money to do a lot of things, Scotland is still a shithole, Wales is much the same as well except with a nasty authoritarian streak). Beyond that the baseline conditions for anything are not really there -- still going to be a country full of people that demand the good life on barely any skills (nobody going to accept Vietnam/Bangladesh like conditions so companies will still go to Vietnam/Bangladesh to get stuff built, assuming automation has not popped by that point), still going to have no land to do much with courtesy of people that worry about knocking down a 50 year old tree, still going to have a massively ageing and possibly shrinking population that needs all the care (generally and because of poor lifestyle choices, the degree of fat cunt has not quite hit US levels but it is up there, to say nothing of saving no money), still going to be short of housing, still going to be importing food, probably still going to be importing energy (doubt they will spin up nuclear plants* in time, though maybe they would be notably on their way), probably still going be adrift in the world (CANZUK is a pipe dream and the EU would expect prostrated and bent over a barrel to be let back in to enjoy the English speaking financial hub pipeline to the EU status again which would be a really hard sell, and if you care about the working class as you claim then that did nothing but shuffle what remained of it out of inner London anyway and what little tax they did not avoid might have given a few pennies), infrastructure is not as bad as the US but not good by any means (never mind if a little solar flare happens)...

*that is assuming they purge the filthy hippies wing that opposes such things which would be a shocker.
 

Xzi

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Presuming labour gets in (now or 18 months matters little) then that would seem like the basis to have a little wager to see if in 5 years that the UK is a shining beacon to all, ready to kick off empire round 2 (or maybe 3 depending upon how you want to view French holdings 1000 years ago).
Brexit is a done deal, and a shitty one at that, so the "empire" is never gonna be quite as prosperous as it could've been otherwise. At the very least, Labour's focus seems to be on recovering from that blunder as best they can, rather than just digging the hole even deeper into dystopian oligarchy.

Same all over the world, and indeed within the UK (SNP is basically labour, has a mandate, has a lot of power (about the only thing they can't do is start wars) and money to do a lot of things, Scotland is still a shithole, Wales is much the same as well except with a nasty authoritarian streak). Beyond that the baseline conditions for anything are not really there -- still going to be a country full of people that demand the good life on barely any skills (nobody going to accept Vietnam/Bangladesh like conditions so companies will still go to Vietnam/Bangladesh to get stuff built, assuming automation has not popped by that point), still going to have no land to do much with courtesy of people that worry about knocking down a 50 year old tree, still going to have a massively ageing and possibly shrinking population that needs all the care (generally and because of poor lifestyle choices, the degree of fat cunt has not quite hit US levels but it is up there, to say nothing of saving no money), still going to be short of housing, still going to be importing food, probably still going to be importing energy (doubt they will spin up nuclear plants* in time, though maybe they would be notably on their way), probably still going be adrift in the world (CANZUK is a pipe dream and the EU would expect prostrated and bent over a barrel to be let back in to enjoy the English speaking financial hub pipeline to the EU status again which would be a really hard sell, and if you care about the working class as you claim then that did nothing but shuffle what remained of it out of inner London anyway and what little tax they did not avoid might have given a few pennies), infrastructure is not as bad as the US but not good by any means (never mind if a little solar flare happens)...
Hoo boy, "our entire working population are a bunch of fat, lazy, useless cunts who deserve nothing but the ruling class' sewage runoff funneled into their mouths" is a helluva campaign slogan. I can't possibly imagine why it isn't helping to improve conservatives' poll numbers. :lol:
 

FAST6191

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And yet living conditions were incomparably better compared to now. GPs in 48 hours? I got a visit planned A YEAR from now.
People were still complaining of healthcare postcode lottery back then as well
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/nov/09/NHS (this being several years after their landslide victory).

I would also question what this year out thing is. Certainly I have seen some questionable things, and people opting to pay rather than wait for stuff I would consider essential to life and happiness, but year out for something serious is a bit radical. If it is a largely ceremonial follow up, pointless screening (are you a male under 50 with no relevant family history? No real point in going to get screened for anything but they do have to offer the service) then pushed to clear a backlog seems more useful.

Healthcare is a tricky one -- between said ageing population of fat cunts, science advancing into evermore expensive areas (good stuff in terms of results but it does catch you on the other side when it comes to space, raw material costs and specialist operators), healthcare being gross (ew sick people, it is not just theoretical lack of pay that sees medics lacking. Doubt you could even import enough and that is not considering that the usual sources are on the up and up which makes that less attractive, and what is not is likely to face competition from everywhere else too -- when in the US last the amount of Nigerian, Indian, Ghanian and Philippines healthcare workers I saw was like the UK 20 years earlier as someone figured out they have some good people there*) then I am not sure how to solve it in a way that is not going to make this last fiscal disaster look like fumbling some change down a drain. There is some red tape that could be cleared out but much of that would amount to union busting (you mentioned GPs and while the GP federation is one of the few union like structures that are doing something useful they are also in the way of a lot), standards drop and/or risk increase (hard sell for Labour if they want to bill themselves as the huggy feely party). Hopefully someone cures ageing.

*for those not as familiar with the field then between various empire related fun and games it has left most of those countries rocking (and maintaining) at least the training standards (though not necessarily the gear) of the UK and an affinity for English such that they can drop in as is. The US seemingly having picked up on that, as have several other places. The empire being historical enough now that any admiration for the baseline country is something their grandparents might have had (there is a reason the Indian nouveau riche at least bought failed formerly prestigious UK companies when they conned their way into a few million) and instead it is pay and conditions you go for.
Hoo boy, "our entire working population are a bunch of fat, lazy, useless cunts who deserve nothing but the ruling class' sewage runoff funneled into their mouths" is a helluva campaign slogan. I can't possibly imagine why it isn't helping to improve conservatives' poll numbers. :lol:
That is your phrasing, not mine.
 

Xzi

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That is your phrasing, not mine.
Sure, but it's hardly a stretch. I took three out of four adjectives straight from your post. Suffice it to say "our population isn't willing to submit to slave labor" is not a good excuse for why your economy needs to cater exclusively to the rich at a time when there are multiple global economic stressors in play already.
 

FAST6191

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Never said it should cater to the rich (indeed the almost pure service economy model that the UK has gone in for over decades at this point is not a good one at all from where I sit -- service + high end manufacturing is where it is at, see stuff like Switzerland and Lichtenstein, and indeed what little manufacturing remains in the UK is that and things too expensive to internationally ship for the bulk -- dog food and bog roll sort of thing). The original premise was that Labour getting in are no more going to turn it into a land of sunshine (granted that would be bad for most natives) and rainbows, or at least tolerable mediocrity than the conservatives have in the last however many years they have nominally had the reigns. Can be useful if corruption levels get too high to have a little switch up (bit more civilised than the blood of tyrants), but it is not like the would be opposition have not spent years taking handouts, kissing babies, sucking off all the right people and engaging in some otherwise Machiavellian shit to be in the top spot ready to be the challenger at that point (and Labour has plenty of that, see those ever fun leaked text messages a while back wherein some faction was complaining about the Trots*. Granted if Labour was composed of those then I don't think I would bother to register to vote, much less actually do it, but they would at least be something I could take seriously as maybe being able to leave a mark.).

There is not a glut of skilled people sitting around out there**, and neuroplasticity/lack thereof*** means what is out there either gets the gas chamber, supported for life or some kind of lost generation (still expensive, though not as expensive), even if someone would unarse the land and risk the sacred breeding ground of some disgusting newt to build a factory. Equally while natural resources are a poison chalice a lot of the time there are vanishingly few of those either. Protectionist tariffs don't work long term either so no chance of some mid/low skill factory existing because of that.

*if having to explain jokes then short for Leon Trotsky (a fairly noted Russian communist, if you had to read animal farm in school like many in the UK would have then it is a reasonably common reference, or perhaps you are more a fan of the stranglers) but trots is also slang for the shits (as I don't know what I ate last night but it gave me the trots).

**I deal with and speak to many more engineering related companies and tradesmen. They are crying out for people (sometimes literally in the case of the 60 something tradesmen having to spend a day on their knees because there are no young types to fob the otherwise simple job off on) and were prepared to offer quite considerable wages (as in single person could almost afford a decent house money). In some cases it is reap what they sow having shuttered apprentice paths some years prior (though that was also in response to other policies, some of which did come from Labour) but not all. Numbers of various schools, sales of various tools and whatever else also serving to back that one up too.

***even without delving into the murkier waters of what people are capable of what (some even otherwise not disabled people might as well be for many purposes in much of the modern world -- the blank slate is a horrible myth) then some really are not suited to sitting at a desk and if that becomes one of the predominant options to get ahead in life you are going to suffer.
 

FAST6191

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Latest poll I've heard, labor had a 30 point lead (!) over the Tories. I'm not sure where you're sitting, but you're not representing the average UK citizen here.
Lead in voting does not mean results forthcoming. Plenty of people got in on a high margin and then fuck all of any great interest happened other than them treading water, indeed it is pretty much the default and mathematically is almost ensured to be so (inertia is a defining factor of modern western political systems really).
I understand little to nothing you just said
Libertarians are the third major political way, usually focused around minimal government as a key issue/defining factor. Not much of a presence in any UK politics compared to the US where it is a fairly notable effort (indeed some accuse them of doing a spoiler effect in some presidential elections), though there is a Scottish take these days I suppose.
Lolbertarians is then a spinoff of that, portmanteau of sorts with the whole LOL/laughing out loud and is usually characterised as libertarians but take it way less seriously (and if you ever met the proverbial teenage/just discovered libertarianism you would be begging to go back to the just discovered communism idiots instead).
Not particularly how I roll either; quite like government funded science among other things.
 

sombrerosonic

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Libertarians are the third major political way, usually focused around minimal government as a key issue/defining factor. Not much of a presence in any UK politics compared to the US where it is a fairly notable effort (indeed some accuse them of doing a spoiler effect in some presidential elections), though there is a Scottish take these days I suppose.
Lolbertarians is then a spinoff of that, portmanteau of sorts with the whole LOL/laughing out loud and is usually characterised as libertarians but take it way less seriously (and if you ever met the proverbial teenage/just discovered libertarianism you would be begging to go back to the just discovered communism idiots instead).
Not particularly how I roll either; quite like government funded science among other things.
I guess @LainaGabranth Dislikes them as well as republicans
 

LainaGabranth

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I guess @LainaGabranth Dislikes them as well as republicans
Libertarians in America don't actually believe in anything besides aesthetics. There's a reason why the party candidates are all just completely psychotic. Listen to any LP debate in the US and you'll instantly see what I mean. You got people saying they wanna get rid of roads and give people jetpacks, get rid of drivers licenses, and other insane shit. It's a pseudo intellectual's political ideology.
 

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Lead in voting does not mean results forthcoming. Plenty of people got in on a high margin and then fuck all of any great interest happened other than them treading water, indeed it is pretty much the default and mathematically is almost ensured to be so (inertia is a defining factor of modern western political systems really).
That might have been a thing of the lead was in the single digits. This kind of digits that even long term voters would rather have someone else in charge. And you can't blame them: it's kind of hard to maintain an illusion of democracy if you're just swapping a petty crook with someone with an agenda that doesn't even pretend to care about the general public.


Oh, and unless I'm mistaken, your last sentence literally means nothing.
 

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You certainly have a way with words!
I try. Can do the diplomatic phrasing and can do the fun words as well, this seems like a fitting case for the latter. Though more importantly am I wrong in my assessment of the situation there? Modern medicine (which is ostensibly cradle to grave for the whole population) is only getting more expensive beyond rates of inflation (even current inflation levels) by dint of fancier and fancier tools (medical scanning today in most county level hospitals was super high end scientific tools 20 years ago, maybe one in the country, with ranks more sub specialities now in each hospital and all that goes with that), not aided by people getting old* and fat (minimal effects before 50 as far as the NHS is concerned, rapidly rising after that owing to be a complicating and aggravating factor in basically everything, sadly not always being a massive heart attack the day after retirement/day before your expensive knee replacements at 62). About the only bonus is smoking rates seem to be down, though in terms of funds that might well mean less tax to fund it (since they started hiding it in shops I had no idea of the prices, had to get some for someone the other day... wow and most of that is tax) and those that would have died off earlier now lingering with whatever else (likely way more expensive) for 15 more years instead.

*generally expensive -- from 15 to 50 unless you break a bone most people probably just get some antibiotics from time to time (hope resistance does not kick off properly in the future either) or some painkillers when you throw your back out, the latter of which is probably a personal expense anyway, or in the case of women maybe a trip to the gynaecologist/obgyn however often you are supposed to do that plus a few more should they actually have a child (rarer hobby than previous decades these days, with it only set to get less common, and that posing a further funding issue even if prices stayed the same/went in line with inflation) and possibly cluttering up the GPs mentioned with a few frivolities here and there or indeed to be told there-there by someone in a white coat/owning a stethoscope. Beyond that is when the fun stuff happens, ramping up as age does and people or medics wanting to have said people being in a broadly functional state and spinning around the sun for as long as possible (modern medicine making that more and more possible). Sure you get some car crashes, industrial accidents, random cancers, unlucky types, genetic inferiors that would not traditionally have made it past childhood (never mind successfully breeding to pass it on, maybe it is a recessive or combination trait), tourist or import with something rare, psychological problems (not aided by modern living either) and drug addicts (possibly also a reflection of modern living) to keep it somewhat less boring.


That might have been a thing of the lead was in the single digits. This kind of digits that even long term voters would rather have someone else in charge. And you can't blame them: it's kind of hard to maintain an illusion of democracy if you're just swapping a petty crook with someone with an agenda that doesn't even pretend to care about the general public.


Oh, and unless I'm mistaken, your last sentence literally means nothing.
The conservatives came in with a similar lead (as long as they could get their party in line, and for the most part the whips did have control, indeed still is just about the case in terms of numbers, they could have passed anything up to and including things that might have needed a super majority) and instead twiddled their thumbs and got people calling them conservatives in name only. Generally see the same in reverse as well, plus the regional/devolved stuff (SNP, which is basically labour, has been in proper majority power in Scotland for years, nothing happened, or we can look in the US -- nobody is clamouring to get to New York, California, Washington state, Oregon despite most of those having serious majority rule and a lot of internal power and funds for some time, and most of those have serious serious problems looming as well).

Not sure how it means nothing. Inertia in politics is generally how it works -- in the unlikely event some firebrand does get in (does not matter what side) or their puppet masters are firebrands (more likely than the boring yes man centrist figurehead that most party leaders are/end up being so as to appeal to the broadest audience/swing voters, whether that be the Parliamentary Labour Party or 1922 committee, or something more back door/sinister depending upon your world view), something gets changed in parliament, no legal challenges issued or issuable (see the various things attempted to stop and stymie leaving the EU for an example, these need no majority as much as a clever lawyer, which is a serious chunk of both political parties with even more on the payroll), probably get kicked back from the house of lords to change some wording they tried to slip through, we will ignore the sign off of the king (last time anything happened there was hundreds of years ago, and even that was a quirk at behest of parliament), probably has a become effective date, then have to train either police to enforce it (good luck) or have it filter down the civil service (the not elected aspect and typically there for the long haul, usually referred to as whitehall gremlins, each party will complain about capture by the other party -- see again leaked text messages and such complaining about the party in charge) and then onto schools, healthcare, tax code... whatever as people get left to figure it out, and then again at local level as most things are regional, and probably do what they were originally doing unless they get called out on it, maybe give it lip service if there is a money barrel uncorked to get some of it. At this point quite some time has probably passed, likely years, and eh.
Sure there are emergency and quicker measures for when it matters but for the most part they are actually left for emergencies rather than frivolities.
Changing colours of ties of whatever dudes are sitting on the big bench ultimately mattering little, any particular elections possibly being a reflection of how brazen the politicos in question have been with their snouts in the trough (or dick in the snout of depending upon personal proclivities) and degree of "that's just not cricket" fallout of that.
 
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