Throughout the Nintendo Switch's life, we've seen modchips and softmods aplenty. What has been missing in the Switch hacking scene, though, is a flashcart; and if rumors are to be believed, one might be coming soon. A user by the name of After Time X shared on Twitter that they have exclusive information regarding testing of a flashcart that will work on all models and revisions of the Nintendo Switch. A video of "proof" was shown, of someone cycling through rom backups, and loading the games to play on their Switch OLED unit. According to the rumor, these flashcarts will begin shipping as early as next month.

Source
Discussion thread

 

[will1983]

What if people who have mig switch dumper start dumping games they rent from gamefly? Wouldn't gamefly pretty much be forced to not offer switch rentals anymore? It's only a game cert ban right not a console ban?

Or worse ! What about dumping games from the good old underated local library?

If nintendo bans cartridge certs it will be worse than we think! I am already seeing ign drama and angry nintendo fanboy about ban!

marketplace, eBay will be flooded with banned cartridge really fast.

Sh*t show incoming!!!!

 

[tabzer]

Just because people are complaining about it doesn't mean its significant. Ever heard of the noisy minority? There are plenty of other factors that a buyer has to take into account when buying secondhand such as the condition of the game, whether its been tampered with CFW/save editing (which can also lead to a ban), if the price difference is justifiable, whether or not you want the gold coins, on top of it being dumped by its previous owner.

It's significant regarding your claim that there is 0 and my claim is more than 0.

It is a fact that a successor to the Switch will be released at some point, sooner or later. This not even you can deny unless you want to imply the Switch will be the last device that Nintendo ever releases.

That's not the speculation I was referring to.

"Mig Switch will not cause a larger impact to the secondhand market that SX OS did when it debuted."

See above.

And you do/have?

Refer to my reply to your first bit of quoted text.

You are counting on a Nintendo Switch successor to minimize the impact of mig. While it may have an impact in that respect, it's total outcome is still speculation.

I never said they "want" to, their actions have ended up creating bad press and they have shown no hesitation to stop conducting the actions that create negative press.

You said that Nintendo has created bad press, so therefore "they have no problem" with creating more bad press. "No problem" says that it isn't weighed.

And your point here is what? You do know why Gamestop pushes used games right? Its because they reap all of the profit. Don't even act like that is their main source of income because if that's the case, then that is a sign of a bigger issue. If people won't buy secondhand, then they can just buy firsthand.

You don't seem to understand that people buy cartridges first-hand because they have resale/trade value.

Personally, I don't know of anyone who uses Gamefly so because of that, I'm less inclined to believe their relevance but since the games you get from them are temporary, its only worthwhile to rent single player games that you wouldn't replay rather than online games that you repeatedly play online. The only games that would potentially be affected by Mig Switch are those that have online capabilities and if you plan on playing that type of game long term, its better to own it rather than rent it.

I'm ignoring this opinion.

If you think numbers and facts don't speak a message, then businesses, economists, and anyone else who deals with numbers on a daily basis are just speaking out of their ass. Numbers are the objective truths attached to facts to identify them as such. I have no opinions on those numbers; they exist and I shared them with the crowd.

Data is neutral and doesn't make claims about the future. Opinions based on data do.

Tell that to any other form of media and they very clearly state that whatever copy of music, movie, or show you own is meant for you only and is NOT to be duplicated. Cloning games isn't just reading them; its making a copy and its a copy that's illegal if an identical copy exists elsewhere.

Making a copy of the game doesn't affect the original source unless the process changes it. Cloning games is not tampering with them as long as the process doesn't change them. You claimed that copying games was tampering with them.

No, the proof is above and below in the form of my counterarguments.

You believe.

You have not disproved this. You "think" I mix my "opinions" with the facts which couldn't be any farther from the truth. You believe the fact that when I brought up Nintendo banning games isn't a message or a narrative. So they just did so on a whim?

"Your truth". Nintendo banning games is a response and carries implications. The interpretation of that message varies in breadth. That's where your facts start converging with opinion.

This is a false claim that you came up because I never stated such a thing.

Nintendo not seeing negative value on their bad press is something you asserted. That's suicide. So yes, you said "such a thing".

Oh where do I even begin? How about the hypocrisy of allowing only yourself to speculate but when I try to speculate, I'm not allowed to? Or that you claimed you were "bored" but clearly not bored enough to keep replying? Yes, I love writing long winded posts when I'm bored. Or how you said you had no interest in discussing the future yet you still are when bringing up Gamestop or Gamefly? So yeah, I've pointed out few contradictions that you should be concerned with if you are interested in logical consistency.

It's not hypocritical of me to point out the contradiction you made between "I only state facts, opinions are irrelevant" and "what? I'm not allowed to speculate?". I haven't made such contradiction or claimed that "I only speak facts". That's an idiotic claim and you should be embarrassed about it. The next step is to admit it and become a better version of yourself.

You are boring me, it's true. You are impressively dull. Also, yes, I enjoy writing when I am bored.

I never claimed that I have "no interest". Check it.

 

[jddgamer1991]

Or worse ! What about dumping games from the good old underated local library?

If nintendo bans cartridge certs it will be worse than we think! I am already seeing ign drama and angry nintendo fanboy about ban!

marketplace, eBay will be flooded with banned cartridge really fast.

Sh*t show incoming!!!!

Exactly you're also going to have people taking friends games and copying them without their knowledge or roommates like students in dorms copying their friends games as well without their knowledge. It's not good and Nintendo is going to have to address it if this thing is real.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2024

You are correct that the most likely scenario would be a game cert ban instead of a console ban because even Nintendo wouldn't just ban people for buying tampered secondhand games. It would be interesting how rental services like Gamefly would react. Considering they track who buys what, maybe they can ask their customers if they have ever hacked the console or used hacking devices. If a game gets banned, they can check which people owned the copy before it was banned and deal with them how they see fit.

Personally, I don't think the issue is going to be as widespread as everyone makes it out to be. This was all doable on SX OS and the secondhand market didn't collapse back then so I don't believe that many people will be affected.

A lot of people don't use online services as well so how far back would they have to go to find out who hacked what when the cart gets banned? Plus what are the odds of playing online at the same time? In the beginning I expect low but more copies chances increase. One cart could get passed around a while before it gets a ban.

 

[tabzer]

You guys. According to @Draxzelex, you aren't significant. Don't bother talking to him. You can't change his mind. He only speaks facts.

 

[jddgamer1991]

My second thought Gamefly in theory could retain the cart so Nintendo can do ban waves because if Gamefly isn't renting the cart then obviously whoever copied it and is online gets console banned from Nintendo. But afterwards to rent that cart out again Nintendo would have to unban the game card so Gamefly can rent it out again. But GameFly and Nintendo would have to work together though.

 

[SBGA]

I am very concerned whether it will impact the second-hand gaming market of ns

 

[subcon959]

I am very concerned whether it will impact the second-hand gaming market of ns

Don't be. If the last 5+ years of being able to dump carts didn't impact it then this won't either.

 

[Draxzelex]

It's significant regarding your claim that there is 0 and my claim is more than 0.

I never said it was zero. When you said there was an impact that was small, I asked for objective proof that there was said impact which you did not provide. You only provided a theory that there may be an impact based on human behavior however a theorem is only a theorem until proven true.

You said that Nintendo has created bad press, so therefore "they have no problem" with creating more bad press. "No problem" says that it isn't weighed.

Time and time again, you are misquoting me. Just because I point out that Nintendo constantly creates bad press doesn't mean I condone it. Its a simple fact that everyone is aware of and not my opinion. Whether or not I approve of their actions doesn't dictate what Nintendo does which I technically have not stated.

You don't seem to understand that people buy cartridges first-hand because they have resale/trade value.

So? Gamestop can keep selling cartridges as well as other distributors. People primarily do not buy games to fuel the secondhand market; they buy games to play them. And some people also like buying physical because they prefer it over digital since owning it in person makes it feel more like you own the game.

Data is neutral and doesn't make claims about the future. Opinions based on data do.

Data is used to predict trends. Surely you're not claiming weather forecasts are "opinions".

Making a copy of the game doesn't affect the original source unless the process changes it. Cloning games is not tampering with them as long as the process doesn't change them. You claimed that copying games was tampering with them.

Since Nintendo, the official distributor of such games, does not produce technology to allow making copies of games, you must tamper with either the game or the hardware to produce a copy. And in certain regions of the world, this is still illegal.

"Your truth". Nintendo banning games is a response and carries implications. The interpretation of that message varies in breadth. That's where your facts start converging with opinion.

Then I'm all ears for why you think Nintendo decided to ban games when they could have just stuck to banning consoles. Do remember that the only way to play a dumped cartridge game at a certain point was by hacking the console with SX OS which is a clear violation of their Terms of Service.

Nintendo not seeing negative value on their bad press is something you asserted. That's suicide. So yes, you said "such a thing".

Refer to my second reply.

It's not hypocritical of me to point out the contradiction you made between "I only state facts, opinions are irrelevant" and "what? I'm not allowed to speculate?". I haven't made such contradiction or claimed that "I only speak facts". That's an idiotic claim and you should be embarrassed about it. The next step is to admit it and become a better version of yourself.

Alright I admit it. You made a very idiotic claim and you should be embarrassed about it. The next step is for you to admit it and become a better version of yourself.

You are boring me, it's true. You are impressively dull. Also, yes, I enjoy writing when I am bored.

Calling this "writing" is giving yourself way too much credit. This is more similar to "trolling" because there is no way you sleep at night thinking the secondhand market will die at the hands of the Mig Switch and Nintendo subsequently banning a handful of cartridges or that your idiotic speculation overrides what Nintendo did in the past with SX OS and the secondhand market still standing today. If I'm impressively dull, you're impressively duller and an idiot on top of that.

I never claimed that I have "no interest". Check it.

Actually you did by stating that you are "bored". According to Merriam-Webster, boredom is the state of being of weary and restless through lack of interest/no interest. So not only did I prove you wrong once again, I have also pointed out yet another one of your contradictions. Check it.

 

[SylverReZ]

Since Nintendo, the official distributor of such games, does not produce technology to allow making copies of games, you must tamper with either the game or the hardware to produce a copy. And in certain regions of the world, this is still illegal.

But surely, someone like Nintendo would have special machinery for writing the game to the chips.

 

[Draxzelex]

But surely, someone like Nintendo would have special machinery for writing the game to the chips.

Correct, but those do not end up in the hands of consumers for obvious reasons. The point is that only Nintendo is allowed to write and dump cartridges, not any other entity. Its similar to how Sony distributes their firmware updates but Nintendo doesn't. What one company deems is okay isn't the same for other companies.

 

[impeeza]

he point is that only Nintendo is allowed to write and dump cartridges

Nintendo is so dumb what they don't dump cartriedges nor keeps copy of original ROMS, do you remember what Wii, WiiU and Switch virtual console games uses dumps from a dark site. that's hilarious.

 

[tabzer]

I never said it was zero. When you said there was an impact that was small, I asked for objective proof that there was said impact which you did not provide.

I did, and then you responded:

Just because people are complaining about it doesn't mean its significant.

People complaining is a proof of impact, though the degree of impact may not be objectively measured, the fact that there is an observable influence is an objective proof. You want to discard information because you cannot measure it, instead of respecting it as an undetermined variable. The variable exists, which is my point.

Time and time again, you are misquoting me. Just because I point out that Nintendo constantly creates bad press doesn't mean I condone it. Its a simple fact that everyone is aware of and not my opinion. Whether or not I approve of their actions doesn't dictate what Nintendo does which I technically have not stated.

What you "condone" or "approve" is completely irrelevant to what I said. You either have lost track to what the discussion is about, or are having a literacy problem.

This is the actual quote in question:

Furthermore, I cannot fathom how you believe Nintendo cares about public opinion when Nintendo is notorious for creating negative publicity about themselves all the time.

This says that you believe that Nintendo has no problem (doesn't care) about creating negative press because they have created bad press in the past. This is an illogical conclusion. What you "condone" is unrelated.

Do remember that the only way to play a dumped cartridge game at a certain point was by hacking the console with SX OS which is a clear violation of their Terms of Service.

This is something MIG supposedly can do better than SXOS.

It's not hypocritical of me to point out the contradiction you made between "I only state facts, opinions are irrelevant" and "what? I'm not allowed to speculate?". I haven't made such contradiction or claimed that "I only speak facts". That's an idiotic claim and you should be embarrassed about it. The next step is to admit it and become a better version of yourself.

Alright I admit it. You made a very idiotic claim and you should be embarrassed about it. The next step is for you to admit it and become a better version of yourself.

there is no way you sleep at night thinking the secondhand market will die at the hands of the Mig Switch and Nintendo subsequently banning a handful of cartridges

You are correct. I absolutely do not believe that.

or that your idiotic speculation overrides what Nintendo did in the past with SX OS and the secondhand market still standing today.

My speculation is not about what Nintendo did or what happened. It's about the potential fallout/chain reaction if Nintendo starts banning every cert/uid that has dual-instances as the method to combat piracy enabled by MIG. The condition of the claim also relies on the dumper to being included with the MIG, and, that people would be able to go online with dumped games.

I don't believe that's how Nintendo is going to combat Mig.

Honestly, we are not sure that Nintendo does ban every dual-instanced cert/uid as it is. It's possible they ban the ones that reach a certain threshold.

If Nintendo sees evidence that the games have been tampered, then its within their authority to step in just like they would a console no matter whose hands its in.

My argument is that (largely) 2nd hand games that have been copied aren't tampered. You responded with:

Since Nintendo, the official distributor of such games, does not produce technology to allow making copies of games, you must tamper with either the game or the hardware to produce a copy. And in certain regions of the world, this is still illegal.

If someone violates the law or the TOS, then the theory is that person should be held accountable, not the person who buys a 2nd hand, untampered game cartridge.

Actually you did by stating that you are "bored". According to Merriam-Webster, boredom is the state of being of weary and restless through lack of interest/no interest. So not only did I prove you wrong once again, I have also pointed out yet another one of your contradictions. Check it.

I said you are boring. I also said I like to write when I am bored--as in, I write to challenge boredom. This is a literacy issue on your end.

Data is used to predict trends. Surely you're not claiming weather forecasts are "opinions".

It's a specific type of opinion. If you want to think of yourself as a weatherman of Nintendo bans, go for it. (Predictions aren't facts btw.)

 

[jddgamer1991]

Wonder if someone will ever find a way to generate unique game certificates I think it's unlikely cause of the encryption the certificates use. Plus Nintendo obviously know them all anyway I would assume. Anyone else's thoughts on that?

 

[realtimesave]

wow. walls and walls of text. but anyway, I will take any certs and uids that get leaked. appears that you just use those with any xci and then you can play the game. could be wrong tho but oh well

 

[jddgamer1991]

wow. walls and walls of text. but anyway, I will take any certs and uids that get leaked. appears that you just use those with any xci and then you can play the game. could be wrong tho but oh well

You still need a few other files but I could see sharing sites that take other peoples games with or without their knowledge and start uploading certs. That by itself could create problems. How much I have no idea.

 

[w0nd3rb0yfx]

 

[Draxzelex]

I did, and then you responded:



People complaining is a proof of impact, though the degree of impact may not be objectively measured, the fact that there is an observable influence is an objective proof. You want to discard information because you cannot measure it, instead of respecting it as an undetermined variable. The variable exists, which is my point.

People complaining is a proof of impact? Are you serious? Do you have any inclination how many things people complain about? I can complain that people buy too many secondhand games or that people should not pirate by buying the Mig Switch. Just because someone complains about something does not automatically make it valid. You want to justify people complaining about anything as an objective parameter but complaints are a subjective opinion that can weigh both ways which is why its usually not respected. Take a look at any fandom and you will see opinions that are polar opposites. There are people who praise Pokemon Legends Arceus for being difficult and different while others hate that aspect. Some Zelda fans love the open-ended nature of Breath of the Wild while others feel it is too non-linear. Are those complains valid? No because a complaint is just that, a complaint.

What you "condone" or "approve" is completely irrelevant to what I said. You either have lost track to what the discussion is about, or are having a literacy problem.

This is the actual quote in question:



This says that you believe that Nintendo has no problem (doesn't care) about creating negative press because they have created bad press in the past. This is an illogical conclusion. What you "condone" is unrelated.

And do you have any evidence of the opposite? They have already banned used games when SX OS was prevalent which, according to you, creates "bad press" because it "harms the secondhand market". Every week, another fan project gets taken down by Nintendo. And Nintendo have repeatedly sold products that were not fully stocked such as Amiibo or the Classic Edition series. What have they done to create good press or even avoid generating bad press?

This is something MIG supposedly can do better than SXOS.

That doesn't mean Nintendo will not see usage of the Mig Switch as a violation of their Terms of Service. In fact, if Nintendo can track which consoles use Mig Switch, they can simply ban those users.

Got it so you agree that you are in the wrong and will write a formal apology.

My speculation is not about what Nintendo did or what happened. It's about the potential fallout/chain reaction if Nintendo starts banning every cert/uid that has dual-instances as the method to combat piracy enabled by MIG. The condition of the claim also relies on the dumper to being included with the MIG, and, that people would be able to go online with dumped games.

I don't believe that's how Nintendo is going to combat Mig.

Honestly, we are not sure that Nintendo does ban every dual-instanced cert/uid as it is. It's possible they ban the ones that reach a certain threshold.

Point is they have and with a product that does literally the same thing as SX OS, it seems crazier to not think they will do the same thing. If Nintendo really wants to stop Mig Switch, the obvious answer is go after Mig Switch. But it took them 6 years to finally kill SX OS. If the team behind Mig Switch is really based in Russia, it won't be as easy to go after them like TX. I have already listed reasons that Mig Switch is inferior to SX OS such as the price and capabilities. The only thing Mig Switch has going for it is a potentially larger market size, keyword being potential. The law of supply and demand dictates that as the price of an item goes up, the demand goes down. People had the same incentive to dump and play used games online with SX OS as they will with Mig Switch. However considering the investment required to that with the Mig Switch is at least 5 times as much, it either evens out or is even less than the number of people who did this on SX OS.

My argument is that (largely) 2nd hand games that have been copied aren't tampered. You responded with:



If someone violates the law or the TOS, then the theory is that person should be held accountable, not the person who buys a 2nd hand, untampered game cartridge.

But if the cartridge has been tampered with such as the previous owner dumping it then reselling the cartridge, which also means they resold the license to own that game on the cartridge, then they are responsible for not doing enough research on what the previous owner did with the cartridge. The same logic applies to any gaming console; if it had been previously hacked but not banned and a new owner buys the console but gets banned, the onus is on the new owner for not properly checking whether the previous owner conducted illegitimate actions.

I said you are boring. I also said I like to write when I am bored--as in, I write to challenge boredom. This is a literacy issue on your end.

Nope, you said:

I am not as interested in someone's approval as I am in learning about how people think and use English.

However you also said you are "bored" with me but you also constantly reply back because you cannot admit that you were proven wrong multiple times nor have any evidence to backup your claims. Seems like the one with the literacy issue is actually you but that makes sense since you believe numbers are "opinions".

 

[jddgamer1991]

Are certs even being banned right now? I mean a lot of them? If they were gamefly would have a huge issue as it stands. Aren't people getting banned for the very fact it's an installed game on CFW that they attempt to go online with? Can't they obviously tell that game is not suppose to be running off of a SD card so there's no need to ban a cert. Console ban instead.

Secondly I'd have no doubt that Nintendo will be able to detect Mig switch. They call it a card that cannot be patched but that slot can get updates for a reason. Wouldn't they be able to tell it's not their card, release an update that detects the card and console ban just for that instead of cert bans?

 

[Draxzelex]

Are certs even being banned right now? I mean a lot of them? If they were gamefly would have a huge issue as it stands. Aren't people getting banned for the very fact it's an installed game on CFW that they attempt to go online with? Can't they obviously tell that game is not suppose to be running off of a SD card so there's no need to ban a cert. Console ban instead.

Right now, certs aren't being banned although that is due to the fact that SX OS does not support the latest firmware so people cannot play .XCI files online. But that doesn't change the fact that certs were being banned. There are a recorded a minimum of 27 instances where a cartridge certificate was banned in the banning thread. Even SciresM himself stated that this was happening years ago when SX OS was highly prevalent.
https://x.com/SciresM/status/1009436235536871424?s=20
You are right that Nintendo can detect its a pirated game so they could have just stuck to banning the console. But they didn't because some people were foolish enough to resell the games they dumped and went online with them. Obviously, since this has already come to pass, the impact was minimal. Most sane people would realize this would be a bad idea as it would be trivial for Nintendo to realize there is 1 identical game certificate being used on multiple consoles. And considering this was a lot easier with SX OS since you didn't need to buy additional hardware to dump as well as play games combined with the fact that SX OS is only a fraction of the price of the Mig Switch, the secondhand market will be fine. Another person on the forum described it in the best way possible.

Don't be. If the last 5+ years of being able to dump carts didn't impact it then this won't either.

 

[tabzer]

People complaining is a proof of impact? Are you serious?

Yes. It is proof of existence. Your feelings about it wasn't the point. Regardless of your feelings, it is something that has an impact. "Influencers" are not called that for no reason.

Do you have any inclination how many things people complain about?

Do you know why? It's because it has an impact.

I can complain that people buy too many secondhand games or that people should not pirate by buying the Mig Switch. Just because someone complains about something does not automatically make it valid.

If something is "valid" or not doesn't change the fact that it exists and creates influence.

You want to justify people complaining about anything as an objective parameter but complaints are a subjective opinion that can weigh both ways which is why its usually not respected.

We cannot say that they do not exist, and that is impact. We both can agree to not like it, but it doesn't change the fact.

Take a look at any fandom and you will see opinions that are polar opposites. There are people who praise Pokemon Legends Arceus for being difficult and different while others hate that aspect. Some Zelda fans love the open-ended nature of Breath of the Wild while others feel it is too non-linear. Are those complains valid? No because a complaint is just that, a complaint.

This is a struggle that you are having with the fact that something can have an impact, even though you do not know how to reliably measure it. I was pretty clear about that before. It feels like you are only proving my point.

And do you have any evidence of the opposite? They have already banned used games when SX OS was prevalent which, according to you, creates "bad press" because it "harms the secondhand market". Every week, another fan project gets taken down by Nintendo. And Nintendo have repeatedly sold products that were not fully stocked such as Amiibo or the Classic Edition series. What have they done to create good press or even avoid generating bad press?

Your complaint was that I was misquoting you, but now we are back to assuming that what I said about you was true. This is a waffle. Do you believe that Nintendo wants to create bad press about themselves or not?

That doesn't mean Nintendo will not see usage of the Mig Switch as a violation of their Terms of Service. In fact, if Nintendo can track which consoles use Mig Switch, they can simply ban those users.

So banning users would be a better way for Nintendo to deal with MIG users than to "just ban certs". I agree. Glad we could get closer to an understanding.

It's not hypocritical of me to point out the contradiction you made between "I only state facts, opinions are irrelevant" and "what? I'm not allowed to speculate?". I haven't made such contradiction or claimed that "I only speak facts". That's an idiotic claim and you should be embarrassed about it. The next step is to admit it and become a better version of yourself.

Alright I admit it. You made a very idiotic claim and you should be embarrassed about it. The next step is for you to admit it and become a better version of yourself.

Got it so you agree that you are in the wrong and will write a formal apology.

The desperation is deafening. I don't think anyone would defend this childish charade.

Point is they have and with a product that does literally the same thing as SX OS

But it's not, by your own admission.

it seems crazier to not think they will do the same thing

We don't even agree what "the same thing" is. You suggested that the solution was to ban certs, but I argue that cert bans were never a primary solution, as a lot more effort was made in other ways. Banning certs is lazy and reckless. We can assume that Nintendo knows that as they prioritized system/user bans and financed legal remedies.

But if the cartridge has been tampered with such as the previous owner dumping it then reselling the cartridge, which also means they resold the license to own that game on the cartridge, then they are responsible for not doing enough research on what the previous owner did with the cartridge.

As I have already demonstrated, dumped cartridges do not mean that source cartridges have been tampered with. You need to learn the definition of "tamper".

The same logic applies to any gaming console; if it had been previously hacked but not banned and a new owner buys the console but gets banned, the onus is on the new owner for not properly checking whether the previous owner conducted illegitimate actions.

It is Nintendo putting the onus on the new owner, not the law. Also, as per the prior point, a switch that has been hacked is not the same as a cartridge that has been copied.

However you also said you are "bored" with me

I get that you want to pretend that you have proven me wrong "multiple times" using this as evidence. But if this the best you have, I would recommend you trying to find out where i said I was "bored". You are incapable of recognizing nuance, and if this is your "high point" where you think you finally proved me wrong, then it just shows that you aren't as literate as I wish you were.