Apparently paddling kids is an okay school punishment in Georgia

[Ericthegreat]

Make sure to check your calendars, because yes, it is actually not 1853, and yes, people still think physical punishment is an okay method to "train" kids. A school in Georgia is showing that the south still has some backwards mindsets even in the modern day, as they've brought back corporal punishment for misbehaving kids.



The superintendent of this hot mess school dares to claim that "kids these days" are causing more problems than ever, and a good ol' smack ought to fix things back to normal, and save the children's futures. Totally.

Permission slips were given to kids to bring home to their parents, so that their parents could sign off on the school's draconian policy. Oh, but don't worry, the school "promises" that troubled kids will only be hit a maximum of three times! Paddlings will occur to kids who've caused a problem on three occasions. Once those three strikes are up, the child is brought into a closed room, where they're smacked three times on the backside.



Of course, if you're a parent and don't wish for some old man to be slapping your kid on the butt with a wood stick, you can deny this form of punishment, and your kid will obtain 5 days of suspension as alternative punishment. Where then they'll be up for truancy due to unexcused abscences.

Source

Okay so this is a private school? Because I think for private schools this isn't that rare(well im sure still rare but there are other private schools that did this).

 

[Song of storms]

Dont forget this one, guy even says he needs his ass whooped

The kid clearly has issues. The last thing you want to do to a kid with issues is making him a violent thug for all the abuse.

I've seen all the videos and gifs posted here to "prove" that kids need corporal punishment but all I've seen were uneducated kids and their parents not giving a shit about what they were doing.

 

[Attacker3]

Where on earth are you seeing that said studies were excluded? Or are those hypothetical studies that you wish existed, but don't know what the real-world outcome would be?

In the actual study itself, not the abstract. Maybe read the full meta-analysis instead of the abstract?

 

[TotalInsanity4]

In the actual study itself, not the abstract. Maybe read the full meta-analysis instead of the abstract?

I skimmed the full study and I didn't see anything explicit exclusions? I'm not gonna lie I've got college classes so unless I decide to write a paper on this (which I just might) there's not much incentive for me to sit down and read in-depth, especially when I could be studying

 

[Attacker3]

I skimmed the full study and I didn't see anything explicit exclusions? I'm not gonna lie I've got college classes so unless I decide to write a paper on this (which I just might) there's not much incentive for me to sit down and read in-depth, especially when I could be studying

It's the last page

 

[TotalInsanity4]

It's the last page

Thanks, I'll check

 

[Attacker3]

Thanks, I'll check

Almost 1500 studies we excluded, which is fine, but they excluded the ones where spanking was only one of the disciplinary measures, and ones where spanking was a threat, and ones where it was used in school. Very misleading abstract I must say

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Almost 1500 studies we excluded, which is fine, but they excluded the ones where spanking was only one of the disciplinary measures, and ones where spanking was a threat, and ones where it was used in school. Very misleading abstract I must say

Ok can you directly quote the text you're looking at? I don't know if we're mixing signals here but I'm not seeing anything like that in the linked publication

 

[Deleted User]

I'm generally okay with paddling, but this is ridiculous. The school should not, under any circumstances, physically punish the child.

If your going to paddle your kid, do it yourself. You know your kid best, and can decide the best way to punish them. Don't toss responsibility to the school.

 

[Attacker3]

Ok can you directly quote the text you're looking at? I don't know if we're mixing signals here but I'm not seeing anything like that in the linked publication

Appendix Number and Percent of Studies Excluded from the Meta-Analyses by Exclusion Code Reason for exclusion from meta-analyses Number of studies excluded Percent Spanking not linked with child outcomes (e.g., prevalence only). 238 16 Not an empirical article (e.g., a literature review). 221 15 Definition of physical punishment included harsh methods of physical punishment beyond spanking, slapping, or hitting. 194 13 Spanking was not measured in the study. 171 11 Study was an unpublished dissertation. 104 7 Article was not relevant. 85 6 Attitudes toward, and not use of, physical punishment was assessed. 82 5 Study was of physical punishment in schools or other institutions. 73 5 Study did not include a bivariate association between spanking and the child outcome. 61 4 Study was of an intervention to reduce physical punishment. 47 3 Available statistics were unclear, insufficient, or inappropriate for the meta-analyses. 46 3 Spanking was combined with yelling or some form of psychological aggression. 44 3 Study was not available in English. 32 2 Spanking was combined with other types of discipline. 30 2 Study was published as a book chapter or conference presentation. 23 2 Study used same dataset as another study in the meta-analysis. 23 2 Dependent variable did not fit into other outcome categories. 11 1 Spanking was of animals, not children. 5 1 Article was unavailable through interlibrary loan. 3 1 Spanking measure included threats of spanking. 3 1 Physical punishment measure was nontraditional (i.e., aversive noise; washing mouth out with soap). 2 1 Study involved a special population of children (chromosomal abnormality). 1 1 Total number of excluded studies 1,499 100%

 

[Taleweaver]

...
I don't agree with beating a child or whooping them just because you are angry with them, but children that do not have proper respect need to be taught it.

My child once went and starting kicking and spitting on her bus driver. Damn straight I took her inside the house and she got the belt across her ass for it. She never acted that way again. She still absolutely loves me, but she knows that she acted wrong and needed to be punished.

This is an interesting post, because I agree with it. It is IMHO, however, a different scenario than a corporate punishment by a school.


The difference is in that "She still absolutely loves me" that you mentioned. That implies an obvious love (or respect) before the punishment. And that's where I think the problem is with a school. From what I can tell, those "good old schools" didn't incite love nor respect from their students but fear. Getting caught meant getting punished, but that only fueled hate or spite of getting caught, rather than learning why their actions were wrong to begin with.

That's why my stance against the school isn't changed: I simply don't believe that they can instill love/respect or inspiration in their students with it. I might be wrong on that, which ironically would mean that I'd be okay with the punishment as described as being a last option. But as it stands, I think they'd just punish children who won't learn anything from it to begin with.

I always think of this one gif here when people start discussing whether some sort of physical punishment is okay or not ​

The interesting part in this gif isn't so much in how the kid acts, but in how the parent (behind the child) DOESN'T act. She could've avoided the whole thing, but she just let it escalate like that. If the guy on the left is a stranger, that just might've been his only way to prevent himself from getting attacked like that (from sites like notalwaysright.com, I've read many instances where parents act in pretty weird ways when being criticized for their children).

 

[Empu1]

The interesting part in this gif isn't so much in how the kid acts, but in how the parent (behind the child) DOESN'T act. She could've avoided the whole thing, but she just let it escalate like that. If the guy on the left is a stranger, that just might've been his only way to prevent himself from getting attacked like that (from sites like notalwaysright.com, I've read many instances where parents act in pretty weird ways when being criticized for their children).

Parents can't really do much nowadays anyway. As soon as they do, people around them will freak out because "oh no, they're yelling at a kid! the poor child will be traumatized for life! you monster!"

 

[Taleweaver]

Parents can't really do much nowadays anyway. As soon as they do, people around them will freak out because "oh no, they're yelling at a kid! the poor child will be traumatized for life! you monster!"

Yes...and in doing so, these "well meaning" bystanders cause more harm than the parent. It's also shown in the first video @DeadlyFoez posted: the parent literally said that she couldn't discipline her kid because then she'd be sent to jail. That obviously won't happen, but that doesn't remove the fear that it MIGHT happen.

I'm not a parent, but I see this same thing with dogs. I immediately correct her when she even attempts to bark during a walk (no matter if it's at a human, another dog, animal or...well...anything). Without exception, the most noisy dogs we meet are ones where the owner just lets them get away with it. Maybe they're embarrassed to correct their dog in public. Maybe they're too afraid to harm their dog (or worse: their feelings). Either way: in the long run, this kind of negligence costs more than overcoming what amounts to being the responsible one.
Now...I obviously can't say that raising children works the same way. But there is certainly some merit in that you need to correct your child as soon as it misbehaves, and within reason and discipline.

To get back at this school. I made the notion earlier that somewhere in the future, people will sue the school for receiving spankings. They might even win. But that wouldn't be because spankings itself cause trauma, but in the hysterical way that the environment might talk the persons into believing they're traumatized.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I'm not a parent, but I see this same thing with dogs. I immediately correct her when she even attempts to bark during a walk (no matter if it's at a human, another dog, animal or...well...anything). Without exception, the most noisy dogs we meet are ones where the owner just lets them get away with it. Maybe they're embarrassed to correct their dog in public. Maybe they're too afraid to harm their dog (or worse: their feelings).

Do you bring a stick and hit your dog with it every time it tries to bark during a walk?
Honest question.
I mean, for my dog usually a direct strong gaze is more than enough. I guess he catches up very quickly with the disgust of its owner.

 

[Taleweaver]

Do you bring a stick and hit your dog with it every time it tries to bark during a walk?
Honest question.
I mean, for my dog usually a direct strong gaze is more than enough. I guess he catches up very quickly with the disgust of its owner.

Hmm...the fact that you have to ask this question tells me you don't (want to) see what I mean. Sorry...I probably communicated it wrong.

Let's start by answering your question: no. We've had her since she was a puppy, and in that time she grew to love and respect my girlfriend and me. To my own surprise, she listens even better to me than my girlfriend (who grew up with dogs...it's my first one). I can speculate on reasons, but especially in her first weeks, she was always punished for misbehaving. It was pretty exhausting, and especially my girlfriend had to learn (from her mother, who did the actual raising of "my girlfriend's" dogs) to be firm and direct to her. But in the end, it was certainly worth it. We could've been more firm or severe, and perhaps even train her like in a dog's school, but we think she's (mostly) fine the way she is.

So that she's behaving when being walked isn't so much something you "have or do not have", but is the result of all the previous experiences. She doesn't just "know" she's not allowed to bark during walks: she knows it until her deepest self (meaning: she won't pull that sort of stuff when e.g. my mother walks her). It's been a while since she made any attempt at barking/growling at another dog, but she knows (correctly) that that immediately puts me in a "you are NOT allowed to do that" mode. Turning my attention toward her is usually enough to make her stop, perhaps with a bit of "towering above her" (us humans are about five times taller than the average dog*...that alone should be enough to remind dogs not to mess with us).
Having a stick would be both wrong and ineffective. Wrong because it constantly signals to the dog that she better not misbehaves (you want to encourage what you want to achieve, not remind them of what NOT to do, which would put her on edge for what is meant to relax her). Ineffective because I read about a better way. If you curve your hand like a claw and pinch her behind the ear/neck for about a quarter second, it directly focuses her attention. The feeling is apparently akin to how mother dogs grab their children by the neck to pull them away from danger, but in any case: I've only had to do it a couple of times in her lifetime, and it's almost stupidly effective (and far less likely to cause physical harm than a stick would do)**.



Anyhow...to get back at the actual school situation: the teachers don't walk around with sticks in the schoolyard either. It would be better if they could just commandeer respect by that "undivided attention" thing, but you don't just GET that on a whim (heck...lots of parents struggle with that, and they spent entire years longer with their children).


*I've got a beagle, btw.
**I'm obviously not going to test the effect of multiple uses.

 

[Empu1]

... The parent literally said that she couldn't discipline her kid because then she'd be sent to jail. That obviously won't happen, but that doesn't remove the fear that it MIGHT happen.

Perhaps not sent to jail, but others will call CPS on you for the weirdest of reasons. It's a thing that happenes, which is why we have websites such as cpsdefense telling you what to when they come knocking at your door. False accusations are terrible and I'd imagine parents don't wanna have to deal with anything like that, hence why you get kids doing whatever they want