Being very overweight.

[Dark_Phoras]

@appleburger I have visited a family doctor. Let's not enter the realm of assumptions.

Add: I've visited nutritionists too. I only write about what I know.

 

[appleburger]

@appleburger I have visited a family doctor. Let's not enter the realm of assumptions.

Sorry, I meant having seen a nutritionist. That was poorly worded. Edited for clarity. It'd be very bold of me to assume you've never been to a doctor, lol

 

[KuntilanakMerah]

suggest them to buy a kinect and show them that workout is exciting through a game

 

[gokuguy]

I believe that the biggest factor for a lot of people is ignorance (hear me out...). You can't prevent (or fix) something effectively without knowing the cause of the problem, and the common solutions given aren't informative enough. The common answers to becoming healthier are to "just eat better" or "just exercise more". Depending on how their lifestyle habits are currently set, that really doesn't tell anyone much. It leaves huge questions out there, like "how do I know how much to eat?" or "what exercises are right for me, and how long and often should I do them?".

At the end of the day, weight loss/gain comes from calorie intake vs calories burned; its different for everyone, and no one answer is correct. Its super important, especially if you have determined you have a weight problem, to do your research and find out whats right for you, or reach out to a professional that can help you figure it out.

Obviously there are other factors that go into this, but I feel that if people were better educated and understood their own bodies more, we'd see a healthier society.

Post-thoughts: Not sure where to put this, but I must clarify that when I talk about a "weight problem", I am referring to those that are unhealthy, and take a toll on the person's health.

 

[Minox]

The body is storing more fat (energy reserves) to compensate for the lack of regular meals.

This is not a thing.

More than likely you ended up eating more than expected during that one meal a day due to increased feeling of hungriness or stopped moving as much as you did before decreasing your burned calories.

 

[Dark_Phoras]

This is not a thing.

It's the first thing you get on Google. It's also what every nutritionist told me.

 

[corradoutah]

Well, some people lose their weight during depression/stressful situations others gain weight. It depends on a genetic and personal attitude. Personally, I lost around 20kgs during my depression, I was unable to eat, and I didn't care much about my weight during this period. In another situation, my friend got around 30 kgs during his bad period, and it took him some time to recover his weight back to normal. His situation helped a lot with liposuction and a good diet plus gym. If any of you are too overweight, liposuction is a good step to start with. In my opinion, here's the link to the service that helped my friend with this problem https://gartnerplasticsurgery.com/liposuction-new-jersey/.

 

[appleburger]

It's the first thing you get on Google. It's also what every nutritionist told me.

View attachment 313781

Jesus Christ, y'all need to be more responsible with how you validate information. The metabolic effect from meal frequency is so beyond negligible for this conversation. Same goes for thermogenesis - eating in a deficit is how you lose weight, and it's very well understood. These other 'effects' are thrown out to get clicks from those who fool themselves into thinking there 'must be something else'. As a very quick example, walking up a flight of stairs will boost your metabolism far more than any frequency or thermogenic effect would. Green tea's metabolic boosting requires 1 gallon+ per day and the effect is also largely negligible, even though marketers are technically telling the truth.

The lot of you are looking at loose correlations here and deluding yourselves. Pay attention to the actual science, please. A loosely quoted point from a webmd article is lazy, 3rd grade book report level nonsense. Just pull up a youtube video on how weight loss works if you can't be bothered to actually read on your own. Jeff Nippard is a great example of a youtuber who backs everything up with science, because that's obviously the best info you're going to get. Biolayne is a great resource for learning more about the low-level biology side of things.

While it's frustrating to see some of you refusing to do your own homework, I'll reiterate that getting fat is fine and you don't need to beat yourselves up about any failures you've had in this arena. It's fine, and I'd argue human nature to struggle with this - same goes for any other task that involves giving up short term reward for long term benefit. Every one struggles with that reality on some level or another; whether it's food, TV, being a workaholic, w/e.

I'd advice giving yourselves a break and educating yourself on this topic if you truly care and want to reap the benefits. If you want some more advice you really ought to join some sort of fitness forum where you can get some better help from those who nerd out on this stuff. My two biggest passions are video games and fitness, so I can't help but want to show you all the light when I read some of this. It's the equivalent of Moms thinking GTA is responsible for school shootings today.

 

[AncientBoi]

Well, some people lose their weight during depression/stressful situations others gain weight. It depends on a genetic and personal attitude.

True. I'm one of those who gain with my depression and stress. That's why gaming helps me out with this.

 

[Dark_Phoras]

Jesus Christ, y'all need to be more responsible with how you validate information.

I can say the same to you, I am responsible in how I validate information. I shouldn't even bother answering this poor behaviour of yours.

 

[appleburger]

I can say the same to you, I am responsible in how I validate information. I shouldn't even bother answering this poor behaviour of yours.

No, you can't.

And it's not personal, but you're info is clearly foolish and I don't feel bad informing people of that. My response was a bit spicy, but if you go post that in fitness circles you're going to be met with similar responses for posting information ignorantly when others are asking for help. The internet can be a bit cruel, I'll give you that, but you asked for it.

Also, for real, nothing personal against you - I'm heavily criticizing your post, but I've been slammed for posting something very similar to you in the past when I first went on reddit asking for help on this stuff years back. So, I'm not clean of this behavior either. I'm ultimately trying to help you all.

 

[Dark_Phoras]

@appleburger That's not really reasonable at all. Get some help. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but my sources are as solid as I can get. You just rant. Everyone can write a lot and be condescendingly unpleasant. That doesn't mean you're right. If that's how you go through life, I'm very sorry of whoever has to deal with you.

 

[appleburger]

@appleburger That's not really reasonable at all. Get some help. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but my sources are as solid as I can get. You just rant. Everyone can write a lot and be condescendingly unpleasant. That doesn't mean you're right. If that's how you go through life, I'm very sorry of whoever has to deal with you.

Yes, I'm mean and you're upset.

To be very clear, you posting information ignorantly and refusing to acknowledge that doesn't necessarily earn my respect, but I'm giving it to you on the benefit of the doubt anyway because I can understand why you're upset with my response. Notice how I'm making it excessively clear I'm not attacking you personally - I'm attacking your bad information. You are trying to defend yourself by attacking me personally. You do not know me and are drawing a lot of assumptions about me. You are disrespecting me - not the other way around.

Your post is glaringly wrong, though, hate it or not. Even the lightest googling on weight loss refutes your post absolutely outright. You literally googled the answer you were looking for - that's begging the question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question - it's a common trap we can all fall into if we're not careful, but it is foolish, and it's worth noting.

You'd fare much better searching for 'weight loss' somewhere where you can access research, or somebody who's discussing the research. I like Jama: https://jamanetwork.com/searchresults?q=weight loss&allSites=1&SearchSourceType=1&exPrm_qqq={DEFAULT_BOOST_FUNCTION}%22weight%20loss%22&exPrm_hl.q=weight%20loss

If you're curious about thermogenesis or metabolic rate studies, then you should be searching for them in a non-biased way for more honest results. If that's too much work, then check out those youtube channels I posted.

Don't concern yourself whether one of us is right or not, and just test what each of us are saying against the science. Me correcting your post doesn't earn me any brownie points, that's not worth anybody worrying about. If all of this is too 'mean' for you to address then you are free to abort the conversation, just do yourself the favor of actually looking into fitness from a Science perspective when you get the chance.

EDIT - jama is not a forum btw, it's a research paper network. This user just didn't read what I posted very carefully.

 

[lolcatzuru]

When i see a person who is very overweight who is young too, first that comes to mind is what happened or didn't happen that person that made them become so overweight?

This thread is more to get an understanding why someone might gain so much weight its not a bashing or weight shaming.

One thing i hear is genetics, which i believe and most science research confirm unless its a very rare disease. most people should be able to lose weight with good diet and exercise.

Sugar is the number one enemy of the human race imo. not a country which your government leaders said or what was written in a book how many years ago.


your thoughts?

So i dont think its strictly bad foods, but yes its definitely genetics, and where im not an expert in metabolism, i imagine that it has something to do with the body seeing this large consumption as important, so it keeps the weight on because it thinks it needs to.

 

[Dark_Phoras]

@appleburger I'm not trusting a regular discussion forum of empiric experience over the information and methods of all five nutritionists I consulted through life and a peer-reviewed, respected website. Because I do have empiric experience of the three-hour window. Also, if you answer me again in the tone you're keeping, I'm reporting you for harassment.

 

[appleburger]

So, I'll conclude my thought on this idea for anyone on this thread who's following along the broader discussion - this brings up an important topic related to answering your fitness (or any) questions if you want to avoid bullshit, because this highlights a big reason why the diet marketing industry is so successful:

You'll want to avoid conflating anecdotal evidence with empirical evidence. Empirical evidence offers up data points - not conclusions. That's the crux of correlation vs. causation. There are plenty of writeups on this very specific point, but here's an example: https://mlelawfirm.com/blog/anecdotal-v-empirical-evidence/

So, if I ate 20 times a day and lose weight, I don't have a real point to be made and need to be careful about the conclusions I draw. Nicolas Cage movies and cheese consumption rise together, ice cream sales scale with murder rates, as well as many other ludicrous claims that can be called "empirical evidence" by anyone who believes this simply means observation, which in fact false.

This is why we have sites showing this absurd logic, here: https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

If I were to recommend one video for everyone here who'd like to get started on getting into great shape, it'd be this one - I feel it's a really great starting point - guys or girls:


And again, we're all fools, just learning as we go at the end of the day - it's good to keep informing yourself. Talking about it with others is a great starting point. Don't hold it against your past self for not being in shape - just keep your eye on the prize, work on it slowly & easily, and don't shame yourself for slipping - it's part of the process! It really is a lifestyle adjustment, and it's very, very worth pursuing.

 

[Dark_Phoras]

So, if I ate 20 times a day and lose weight, I don't have a real point to be made and need to be careful about the conclusions I draw.

I don't know why you wrote a text about correlation vs causation, but I agree with your platitude, people need to be careful with their conclusions because they could be based on incomplete or unsustained data.

 

[appleburger]

I don't know why you wrote a text about correlation vs causation, but I agree with your platitude, people need to be careful with the conclusions they draw, they may be based on incomplete or unsustained data.

I predicated that with: "Empirical evidence offers up data points - not conclusions. That's the crux of correlation vs. causation." - my goal being to point out how easily we all fall into that trap; we're basically wired for it. Your meal frequency comments fall right into that category - simple mistake that many have made, myself included.

And, I'd like to point out as an aside, while meal timing/frequency is negligible for weight loss, that doesn't discount the practice. We've just come to realize that it doesn't help in a meaningful way for weight loss.

Jama isn't a forum by the way - it's a research paper network. I'm not suggesting everyone pore through entire research papers to answer a fitness question, but it's good to have the sources on hand to check against what you read/watch when trying to figure out how stuff works. I like the ones I've posted about here, because they link directly to the research, so I feel they're a very reliable source of information that's easy to digest.

 

[Dark_Phoras]

I predicated that with: "Empirical evidence offers up data points - not conclusions. That's the crux of correlation vs. causation." - my goal being to point out how easily we all fall into that trap; we're basically wired for it. Your meal frequency comments fall right into that category - simple mistake that many have made, myself included.

And, I'd like to point out as an aside, while meal timing/frequency is negligible for weight loss, that doesn't discount the practice. We've just come to realize that it doesn't help in a meaningful way for weight loss.

Jama isn't a forum by the way - it's a research paper network. I'm not suggesting everyone pore through entire research papers to answer a fitness question, but it's good to have the sources on hand to check against what you read/watch when trying to figure out how stuff works. I like the ones I've posted about here, because they link directly to the research, so I feel they're a very reliable source of information that's easy to digest.

My post doesn't fall into the trap of correlation vs causation, because I'm not basing my point on empiric experience - you are. I provided a source that people can check, and referred a personal source that is the nutrition appointments I've been through, but that is something people would need to go through themselves out there. Note that a few months ago (but still on this page) you went on a diatribe against nutritionists, maybe you don't like that their scientific facts clash against the narrative peddled in your fitness circuits.

I know what Jama is, I checked the link, it's empty. Anyway, it's a mistake to just check academic papers to validate our position, because scientific studies answer very specific effects and it's the overall study of all of them that give us the answers to questions. A person requires a progressive knowledge, built over years of study, to understand several scientific studies and not extrapolate from them. Also, a scientific study may not be peer reviewed.

 

[appleburger]

My post doesn't fall into the trap of correlation vs causation, because I'm not basing my point on empiric experience - you are

Uh....

Dark_Phoras:
Because I do have empiric experience of the three-hour window.

Anyway...

I know what Jama is, I checked the link, it's empty. Anyway, it's a mistake to just check academic papers to validate our position, because scientific studies answer very specific effects and it's the overall study of all of them that give us the answers to questions. A person requires a progressive knowledge, built over years of study, to understand several scientific studies and not extrapolate from them. Also, a scientific study may not be peer reviewed.

It's an overwhelming consensus - you really aren't taking the bone when I'm handing it directly to you.

And then you dismiss literally all of Scientific research because it's 'too specific'? We're talking about meal frequency for fat loss - that's easily testable and is not new information. This is fitness 101 stuff and it's embarrassing that you keep trying to "yeah huh" me instead of reading for 5 minutes so we can all get back to reality. Stop trying to die on a hill you so poorly made. Your 5, totally real and certified nutritionists all need to be fired or removed from your fantasy land. You should also consider reading how calories work so you can stop wasting so much money on these totally real and very professional and smart nutritionists.

What you're confusing for 'rants' and 'diatribes' is a lame attempt at dismissing what I'm saying because you don't like it. I also did not speak against nutritionists, I even told you I've been to one for a decent number of years. you need to actually READ, dude. I'll bookend this - feel free to write this off as another delusional rant all you want. I can be a dick on forums, I'm okay with owning that. At least I'm self aware.

EDIT: Cranky as this post may be, I DO wish you the best on the fitness journey, I don't need you to be 100% on my side here at the end of the day. You all just keep going at it and I'm sure you'll all do well