Believe Accusers!

[Deleted User]

People who are accusing other people must be listened to! By dismissing their accusations we are saying it is OK what they are doing, and that must not be allowed! Even if there is no proof, it is to be expected of something like this when the abused and the accusers have kept it to themselves in order to prevent being embarrassed. How in this country have we moved to a point where we do not listen to people who have experienced such traumatic things because there is no proof. Shouldn't their mental state be proof enough of the horrible things they have experienced? We should listen to them with pure intent!

Do you know what I just described?
The Salem witch trials.

Never in American history has this much mass hysteria been present since the Salem witch trials, in which many people were tried for "witchcraft" using only the accuser's state of mind as evidence. They would be presenting their argument and pretend to be distracted by invisible blue butterflies (obviously not everyone did this). Over 20 people in the colonial time of America were executed (hanged, drowned, pressed) because of these silly arguments.

While obviously those who claim rape should not be disregarded because these things do happen. I am not stating that rape or sexual abuse doesn't happen. That is the only difference between the Salem witch trials and what is happening now.

I will stand beside any rape victim and call for even death if there is evidence. We have reverted as a society, we have turned around. At what point did our judicial system decide it was OK to listen to accusers with no proof except for that which is in their head?

In the case of Kavanaugh, for instance, I am not saying that Kavanaugh is guilty. I am not saying that Kavanaugh is innocent. What I am saying is that we should not even be having the debate in the first place. This debate is pointless. It is only a "he said" or "she said". You can show all the evidence you want of things that have been written or things that have been said, but if you cannot show evidence of the alleged crime, then what evidence is there that makes a difference.

I am almost 100% certain that if a straight, white, christian male were to make these accusations (regardless of whether or not they were true) they would be dismissed in a heart beat.

The Salem witch trials were a series of over 200 trials, where nineteen of the accused were found guilt. 14 of which where killed by hanging, 1 of which being pressed to death while refusing to admit he was a witch. Others were drowned, because they were assumed to be witches who could swim for an eternity (and died because of exhaustion).

In the modern times, we are no longer killing people physically, but rather killing them socially, emotionally, politically. We aren't even burning the bridges for these people, but we are burning the materials used to build bridges. We have no idea what happened, and all we can go off of are two (maybe a few more) people making claims and accusations.

We have regressed beyond recovery.

 

[PanTheFaun]

In order for someone to be believed they must show proof.
You can't just believe someone when they say something of certain magnitudes. What about the accused? They could be innocent but are getting attacked due to their beliefs, race, gender, etc.

 

[lordkaos]

People who are accusing other people must be listened to! By dismissing their accusations we are saying it is OK what they are doing, and that must not be allowed! Even if there is no proof, it is to be expected of something like this when the abused and the accusers have kept it to themselves in order to prevent being embarrassed. How in this country have we moved to a point where we do not listen to people who have experienced such traumatic things because there is no proof. Shouldn't their mental state be proof enough of the horrible things they have experienced? We should listen to them with pure intent!

Do you know what I just described?
The Salem witch trials.

Never in American history has this much mass hysteria been present since the Salem witch trials, in which many people were tried for "witchcraft" using only the accuser's state of mind as evidence. They would be presenting their argument and pretend to be distracted by invisible blue butterflies (obviously not everyone did this). Over 20 people in the colonial time of America were executed (hanged, drowned, pressed) because of these silly arguments.

While obviously those who claim rape should not be disregarded because these things do happen. I am not stating that rape or sexual abuse doesn't happen. That is the only difference between the Salem witch trials and what is happening now.

I will stand beside any rape victim and call for even death if there is evidence. We have reverted as a society, we have turned around. At what point did our judicial system decide it was OK to listen to accusers with no proof except for that which is in their head?

In the case of Kavanaugh, for instance, I am not saying that Kavanaugh is guilty. I am not saying that Kavanaugh is innocent. What I am saying is that we should not even be having the debate in the first place. This debate is pointless. It is only a "he said" or "she said". You can show all the evidence you want of things that have been written or things that have been said, but if you cannot show evidence of the alleged crime, then what evidence is there that makes a difference.

I am almost 100% certain that if a straight, white, christian male were to make these accusations (regardless of whether or not they were true) they would be dismissed in a heart beat.

The Salem witch trials were a series of over 200 trials, where nineteen of the accused were found guilt. 14 of which where killed by hanging, 1 of which being pressed to death while refusing to admit he was a witch. Others were drowned, because they were assumed to be witches who could swim for an eternity (and died because of exhaustion).

In the modern times, we are no longer killing people physically, but rather killing them socially, emotionally, politically. We aren't even burning the bridges for these people, but we are burning the materials used to build bridges. We have no idea what happened, and all we can go off of are two (maybe a few more) people making claims and accusations.

We have regressed beyond recovery.

there's just one difference though, witchcraft doesn't exist, men who rape women do.

 

[SG854]

Look at Black Lives Matter, an example of false accusations without proof. Riots right after an accusation before the court case even starts.
Evidence needs to be shown if you accuse someone of something.

 

[PanTheFaun]

Look at Black Lives Matter, an example of false accusations without proof. Riots right after an accusation before the court case even starts.
Evidence needs to be shown if you accuse someone of something.

I agree with this completely.

 

[Deleted User]

there's just one difference though, witchcraft doesn't exist, men who rape women do.

While obviously those who claim rape should not be disregarded because these things do happen. I am not stating that rape or sexual abuse doesn't happen. That is the only difference between the Salem witch trials and what is happening now.

Please read the entire thing.

 

[dAVID_]

DAILY REMINDER: The burden of proof is on the one making the statement, and everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[SG854]

I agree with this completely.

The horrible thing was that for Michael Browns case it was completely made up. The Ferguson community lied, intimidated witnesses, pressured people to lie about the cop. They shouted death threats, a few people were afraid to tell the truth that the cop was innocent because they were scared of retaliation. Threats were made to the residents, they posted notes on the apartment buildings to not tell cops and that there were gunshots every night. Basically stitches for snitches.

Same with a good number of other cases that evil cop killing innocent blacks were made up. And its the same formula, riot before any evidence comes out.

 

[PanTheFaun]

The horrible thing was that for Michael Browns case it was completely made up. The Ferguson community lied and conspired against the cop. They shouted death threats, a few people were afraid to tell the truth that the cop was innocent because they were scared of retaliation. Threats were made to the residents, they posted notes on the apartment buildings to not tell cops that there were shootings every night. Basically stitches for snitches.

Same with a good number of other cases that evil cop killing innocent blacks were made up. And its the same formula, riot before any evidence comes out.

It's the downfall of modern society.

 

[Chary]

The whole metoo thing is a double edged sword. I’m really glad that women are now coming forward (and I hope that abused men also begin to have a louder voice as well) and getting vindication against human trash rapists.

But, it’s a slippery slope that leads to blind accusations and a mentality of guilty until proven innocent.

 

[dAVID_]

The whole metoo thing is a double edged sword. I’m really glad that women are now coming forward (and I hope that abused men also begin to have a louder voice as well) and getting vindication against human trash rapists.

But, it’s a slippery slope that leads to blind accusations and a mentality of guilty until proven innocent.

Yeah, false rape accusations are the modern form of stoning.

 

[Joe88]

Relevant

 

[WD_GASTER2]

In the case of Kavanaugh, for instance, I am not saying that Kavanaugh is guilty. I am not saying that Kavanaugh is innocent. What I am saying is that we should not even be having the debate in the first place. This debate is pointless. It is only a "he said" or "she said". You can show all the evidence you want of things that have been written or things that have been said, but if you cannot show evidence of the alleged crime, then what evidence is there that makes a difference.


We have regressed beyond recovery.

several people called for an invesitgation. one side keeps saying "noooo~" if everyone wanted to be formal instead of making this a bigger circus let the authorities do their part and everyone can move on.

that being said, all humans are capable of lying.

The whole metoo thing is a double edged sword. I’m really glad that women are now coming forward (and I hope that abused men also begin to have a louder voice as well) and getting vindication against human trash rapists.

But, it’s a slippery slope that leads to blind accusations and a mentality of guilty until proven innocent.

pretty much exactly how i feel. glad a conservative sees things similar to a lefty.

 

[kuwanger]

How in this country have we moved to a point where we do not listen to people who have experienced such traumatic things because there is no proof. Shouldn't their mental state be proof enough of the horrible things they have experienced? We should listen to them with pure intent!
Do you know what I just described?
The Salem witch trials.

Thanks for entirely missing the point.

I will stand beside any rape victim and call for even death if there is evidence. We have reverted as a society, we have turned around. At what point did our judicial system decide it was OK to listen to accusers with no proof except for that which is in their head?

In the case of Kavanaugh, for instance, I am not saying that Kavanaugh is guilty. I am not saying that Kavanaugh is innocent. What I am saying is that we should not even be having the debate in the first place.

Wow, so now Congress is the Judiciary and interviewing someone about their character, which inherently would include not only any accusations put against them but also their demeanor in addressing those accusations, is above reproach? Is anyone calling for Kavanaugh to go to jail? Is the call for an FBI investigation one of looking for proof meant precisely to confirm or deny the veracity of their stories to decide if Kavanaugh is a liar? Is the intention to lead to some sort of grand jury investigation or conviction without any proof?

In the modern times, we are no longer killing people physically, but rather killing them socially, emotionally, politically. We aren't even burning the bridges for these people, but we are burning the materials used to build bridges. We have no idea what happened, and all we can go off of are two (maybe a few more) people making claims and accusations.

Are you talking about convicted felons? Registered sex offenders? Or simply people who are in the public eye who are accused of things? That last bit, political murder, is as old as society. The same with accusing people of really all sorts of crimes, whether someone is convicted or even fully exonerated, being treated differently. The only real "solution" to that would be wipe history and punish those who continue to spread any information about accusations.

tl;dr - When you try to get a job, the job interview might dig up a lot of questionable things and you might not get the job. That's not the same as the risk of prison.

 

[Xzi]

In the case of Kavanaugh, for instance, I am not saying that Kavanaugh is guilty. I am not saying that Kavanaugh is innocent. What I am saying is that we should not even be having the debate in the first place. This debate is pointless. It is only a "he said" or "she said". You can show all the evidence you want of things that have been written or things that have been said, but if you cannot show evidence of the alleged crime, then what evidence is there that makes a difference.

The accusers want an FBI investigation because they know their testimony will hold up under threat of perjury. Kavanaugh and the Republicans don't want an FBI investigation because they know the exact opposite is true for him.

It's also ridiculous to coddle a grown man who is being considered for a lifetime appointment. Even if these allegations aren't proven true now, they can be later. Even if the allegations were all proven false, Kavanaugh has shown he doesn't have the temperament expected of an SC judge. Republicans need to have a little more respect for the position and what it represents.

 

[WD_GASTER2]

my whole deal with this, is why not just let an investigation take place?
just seems strange to me.

 

[SG854]

It's the downfall of modern society.

And now they all get to enjoy the Ferguson effect. Cops are now backing off because they are afraid of becoming the new racist and have their lives ruined by criminal charges even if they do everything right. Cops are policing Black neighborhoods less, stop and frisk rates went down, less enforcement of broken windows policing, and crime rates and murder rates soared in many cities. And people are begging cops to come back but cops are afraid being charged of racism.

Who needs to stop a crime before it happens, stop and frisk is racist and hurts black peoples feelings. Lets wait till after the crime happens before cops do anything. Black Lives Matter got exactly what they wanted. This is what they wanted right, less policing in black neighborhoods because apparently cops were only there to be racist, even though the same policing BLM criticized is what reduced crime in the 90's and thousands of blacks today would've been dead without it.

Believe the accusers! Who needs evidence of racism when they can riot without it. They won. Mission accomplished. They got what they wanted and now blacks are dying.

 

[deinonychus71]

Don't you love Twitter and Facebook, the new age Inquisition?

 

[sarkwalvein]

People should be heard and things investigated, of course, but by no means shall the life of the accused be destroyed without a proof.
The problem is that today's society is playing accuser-judge-executioner all in their hands, disregarding any kind of fair trial.

PS: And I am not talking just about Kavanaugh, but about the general trend of disregarding the importance of proof and facts and going by emotion and mob-mentality.

I am almost 100% certain that if a straight, white, christian male were to make these accusations (regardless of whether or not they were true) they would be dismissed in a heart beat.

I agree with mostly everything but this. Though there is a bias, the mass hysteria is generalized, and trying to make your point about some racial/privilege based unfairness debilitates your point. It will still happen if the accuser was a straight, white, christian, male... he only needs to find some way to play the social victim. The problem here is people moving on emotions instead of facts.

 

[Jayro]

Sorry, but without proof, they could be lying. So many innocent people go to jail for their accuser lying. So many men are rotting in jail RIGHT NOW because of false rape accusations.
Thanks, but no thanks OP.