Covid-19 vaccine

[DKB]

This thread is AMAZING for learning/discovering who not to talk to about health/disease/vaccines.

 

[jimbo13]

I'm only interested in what the science says. You should be too.

Also, are you arguing for the legalization of marijuana? How progressive of you.

Your only interested in what science you agree with says. And of course I support marijuana legalization, (only federally, state by state causes influxes of stoners as seen in Colorado) I support at minimum decriminalizing all drugs, the government has no right or business telling me what I can put in my body or have to put in my body.

Libertarianism 101, complete delusion of the left they have anymore than a marginal consensus than the right when it comes to sensible drug policy, Obama raided more medical marijuana dispensaries than Trump did.

https://greenrushdaily.com/news/politics/dispensary-raids-rise-obama-regime/

 

[Lacius]

Your only interested in what science you agree with says.

I'm not the one ignoring the preponderance of scientific data and the overwhelming majority of the scientific community because I like what grandma and grandpa have to say. I think we have a demonstrable case of psychological projection over here.

And of course I support marijuana legalization, (only federally, state by state causes influxes of stoners as seen in Colorado) I support at minimum decriminalizing all drugs, the government has no right or business telling me what I can put in my body or have to put in my body.

Libertarianism 101, complete delusion of the left they have anymore than a marginal consensus than the right when it comes to sensible drug policy, Obama raided more medical marijuana dispensaries than Trump did.

https://greenrushdaily.com/news/politics/dispensary-raids-rise-obama-regime/

Libertarians sometimes get things right. It should be noted, however, that one of the two major parties in the United States broadly supports marijuana legalization, and the other political party broadly opposes it.

• About 96% of House Democrats voted in favor of the MORE Act.
• About 3% of House Republicans voted in favor of the MORE Act.

https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2020235
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana_Opportunity_Reinvestment_and_Expungement_Act

 

[jimbo13]

I'm not the one ignoring the preponderance of scientific data and the overwhelming majority of the scientific community because I like what grandma and grandpa have to say. I think we have a demonstrable case of psychological projection over here.


Libertarians sometimes get things right. It should be noted, however, that one of the two major parties in the United States broadly supports marijuana legalization, and the other political party broadly opposes it.

• About 96% of House Democrats voted in favor of the MORE Act.
• About 3% of House Republicans voted in favor of the MORE Act.

https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2020235
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana_Opportunity_Reinvestment_and_Expungement_Act

Nonsense, Plenty of dispensary advocacy groups were opposing the MORE act it was loaded with regulation, taxes and criminal justice side issues. It was hardly a simple decriminalization or legalization act. When a clean question without progressive nonsense tacked on the lefts vote count is marginal.

If you look a state by state map the differences are marginal, we have 4 states holding on out of 50, only two actually still pursue charges.

Grand standing virtue signaling bills aren't indicative of support.

https://disa.com/map-of-marijuana-legality-by-state

 

[Lacius]

Nonsense, Plenty of dispensary advocacy groups were opposing the MORE act it was loaded with regulation, taxes and criminal justice side issues. It was hardly a simple decriminalization or legalization act. When a clean question without progressive nonsense tacked on the lefts vote count is marginal.

If you look a state by state map the differences are marginal, we have 4 states holding on out of 50, only two actually still pursue charges.

Grand standing virtue signaling bills aren't indicative of support.

https://disa.com/map-of-marijuana-legality-by-state

1. It's a mistake to look at what states are doing, since many of them are taking paths to legalization or decriminalization through ballot measures. A lot of progressive policies end up being passed through popular vote ballot measures even though those areas/states are represented by Republican politicians who are against those very things. For example, Missouri recently passed Medicaid expansion through a ballot measure, despite the Republicans who control governance in the state being vehemently opposed to it.
2. Instead, you should be looking at what the Republican and Democratic lawmakers are actually saying and doing. Democratic members of the House put forward legislation to decriminalize marijuana, and Republicans voted against it. Meanwhile, the former Republican president tried to eliminate protections for state medical marijuana laws, and he rescinded the Obama administration 2013 Cole Memorandum, which directed federal prosecutors to not pursue marijuana prosecutions in states where marijuana is legal under state law.
3. If you look closely at the map you've posted, stereotypically blue states are far more likely to have legalized marijuana, and stereotypically red states are far less likely to have done so.
4. Aside from the marijuana decriminalization itself, there wasn't much that was controversial in the MORE Act. I'd be interested to know if you would have voted for it, and if not, why specifically you wouldn't have.

 

[jimbo13]

1. It's a mistake to look at what states are doing, since many of them are taking paths to legalization or decriminalization through ballot measures. A lot of progressive policies end up being passed through popular vote ballot measures even though those areas/states are represented by Republican politicians who are against those very things. For example, Missouri recently passed Medicaid expansion through a ballot measure, despite the Republicans who control governance in the state being vehemently opposed to it.
2. Instead, you should be looking at what the Republican and Democratic lawmakers are actually saying and doing. Democratic members of the House put forward legislation to decriminalize marijuana, and Republicans voted against it. Meanwhile, the former Republican president tried to eliminate protections for state medical marijuana laws, and he rescinded the Obama administration 2013 Cole Memorandum, which directed federal prosecutors to not pursue marijuana prosecutions in states where marijuana is legal under state law.
3. If you look closely at the map you've posted, stereotypically blue states are far more likely to have legalized marijuana, and stereotypically red states are far less likely to have done so.
4. Aside from the marijuana decriminalization itself, there wasn't much that was controversial in the MORE Act. I'd be interested to know if you would have voted for it, and if not, why specifically you wouldn't have.

As a person who has a legal grow I was opposed to the 5% federal tax that amounted to an affirmative action tax of how the money was earmarked. I wasn't going to support any federal tax, I definitely wasn't going to support a "Clean up the crack hoods" tax. Take it out of the CIA budget, they did it.

I actually voted against full legalization here in MT. Not because I oppose legalization, but it adversely affected my bottom line and two I didn't want to encourage the canna-tourism and population influx that was seen in Colorado.

We have a saying in Montana, "Shhhhhhh!" and already have enough problems with tourists trying to pet the fluffy cows and take selfies with bears

 

[RocaBOT]

How is local politics about unrelated drugs penalisation relevant to the covid and covid-vaccine subject, already?
Because I really fail to see where there is any relevance to any of jim's diversions, tbh. Like anything he says is a diversion to not have to acknowledge his beliefs against covid-vaccines and mask mandates are biased and outright flawed, why are we still falling into that?

 

[djpannda]

How is local politics about unrelated drugs penalisation relevant to the covid and covid-vaccine subject, already?
Because I really fail to see where there is any relevance to any of jim's diversions, tbh. Like anything he says is a diversion to not have to acknowledge his beliefs against covid-vaccines and mask mandates are biased and outright flawed, why are we still falling into that?

Wait you mean his Uncle doe not Work for Nintendo....

 

[Valwinz]

This never end as democrats keep making spreader events like Obama

 

[Dakitten]

This never end as democrats keep making spreader events like Obama

Yes, because not Republicans but DEMOCRATS ARE A NEVER ENDING STREAM OF SUPER SPREADERS. YOU GOT 'EM, VAL! Seriously, did a dem eat your cat or something? Why are you so full of misplaced rage?

 

[SyphenFreht]

This never end as democrats keep making spreader events like Obama

https://www.texasgop.org/republican-events-list/

This is just in Texas alone, over like a two week minimum.

Must be all those Republicans for Obama, huh?

 

[Kilim]

democrats bad republicans good

 

[Lacius]

This never end as democrats keep making spreader events like Obama

A spreader or "super-spreader" event is a very specific thing. For example, the indoor and largely maskless Trump rallies that occurred during the 2020 election season demonstrably spread COVID-19 and death in their wakes, and that's what made them super-spreader events. You don't just get to call something a spreader event just because you feel like it's a spreader event. Let me know when there's evidence that Obama's outdoor event with vaccinated attendees spread COVID-19, and then we can talk.

 

[Dakitten]

democrats bad republicans good

Plz provides surcis!

 

[NyaakoXD]

All these L's Jim keeps getting. Hilarious to see how many times their reasoning gets taken down so easily with multiple facts and data and their main emotional drive is because their grandparents don't want the family to take the vaccine.

 

[Valwinz]

wait a minute

New concerning results, Israel 2021 (Prof. Retsef Levi)
MDA Emergency calls:
25% increase in Cardiac arrests & Heart attacks (16-29).
83.6% increase in Heart attacks (Women 20-29).
According to the study, this increase was correlated with Mass vaccination.https://t.co/SWVbjJUSnw https://t.co/ezQp0UJia2 pic.twitter.com/aQrGZVlw96

— Ran Israeli (@RanIsraeli) August 10, 2021

 

[RocaBOT]

Will you someday post actual scientific evidence and not random twitter posts with unsourced documents attached? Just wondering if you'll ever have something reliable to say or if you're just full on unredeemable

 

[Lacius]

wait a minute
https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1425002893116166144

1. Correlation doesn't equal causation.
2. A 25% increase in heart attacks between the ages of 16-29 is approximately 72 people. When you have numbers this low, random chance can have a significant effect on the data.
3. An 83.6% increase in heart attacks among women 20-29 is about 25 people. When you have numbers this low, random chance can have a significant effect on the data.
4. These increases could be attributed to numerous other variables, including but not limited to COVID-19, the effects of lockdowns, random chance, etc.
5. I haven't seen any data that shows a direct link between vaccines and increased heart attacks.

Let us know when you actually have scientific data to support your hypothesis.

 

[SyphenFreht]

wait a minute
https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1425002893116166144

It's almost like this information has been known since the vaccinations came out. Yes, those who had the vaccination have a risk of cardiac arrest and heart attacks. And, for those of us good at math the rise in overall vaccinations will also give a rise to those who report heart attacks. You what other number fluctuates with increased vaccinations? An overall decrease in new Covid cases. Pertaining to the strains the vaccine was made for, anyway.

Man, for a forum revolving around games and hacks, some of you have very little grasp on basic mathematics.

 

[RocaBOT]

Oh hey, found the probable title of the article this data is cannibalised from: "Evidence of Worse Outcomes Related to Cardiac Arrest during the COVID-19 Pandemic due to Patient Reluctance to Seek Care."
Not yet published, the article is also not yet accessible on the author's website https://mitsloan.mit.edu/faculty/directory/retsef-levi
But it does seem the data you're using is completely unrelated to the vaccine and completely related to "patient reluctance to seek care". Like, most likely because the healthcare system has been struggling for the past 18 months, so they don't want to overload it with what they think is not going to be a big problem (and then the worse happens).

THAT is the actual biggest consequence of people continuing to let the variants go haywire: healthcare systems are under stress, so people who have something else are reluctant to seek care because they don't want to overload the system. And that means they don't get treated, get worse and sometimes die.