Democratic Debates

[Xzi]

I don't know what you're trying to say. all I'm saying is that comparing the Proud Boys to Antifa is like comparing Glass Joe to Mike Tyson. Completely nonsensical and that's evident to anyone that is familiar with these two groups.

It's completely nonsensical to dismiss violence from either group just because it's politically expedient. And it's an undeniable fact that both of these groups do commit violent acts regularly. The Proud Boys haven't been around nearly as long as Antifa in its various forms, so they have yet to commit as many violent acts, but that's largely irrelevant. You either condemn violence or you don't.

 

[GhostLatte]

It's a shame there are people on here who think known white supremacist groups have done nothing wrong. You're making your parents proud!

 

[cots]

I don't know what you're trying to say. all I'm saying is that comparing the Proud Boys to Antifa is like comparing Glass Joe to Mike Tyson. Completely nonsensical and that's evident to anyone that is familiar with these two groups.

Well, if one is more prone to violence than the other they'd possibly have the upper hand in a fight. I was trying to say that violence shouldn't be considered as not an option as clearly it has worked in the past. I guess it just matters which group wins. If we would have lost our fight for independence the other side would have been the victor and their version of history would claim them as such. Although I think violence should be a last resort maybe these groups are at their last resort. All I know if I'm at a rally I'm going to defend myself at all costs if someone attacks me. It might not help and I might lose, but that isn't going to stop me from trying.

 

[Iamapirate]

It's completely nonsensical to dismiss violence from either group just because it's politically expedient. And it's an undeniable fact that both of these groups do commit violent acts regularly. The Proud Boys haven't been around nearly as long as Antifa in its various forms, so they have yet to commit as many violent acts, but that's largely irrelevant. You either condemn violence or you don't.

I am not dismissing violence from anyone. all I am saying is that antifa is larger, has committed far more violent acts and have been granted more protection/credibility than the Proud Boys.

 

[cots]

There's barely a middle class any more, and Trump is helping to shrink it faster. Obama's job growth numbers were better than Trump's, too, so I don't know where you're getting your info on that. The last person to do lasting and severe damage to the economy was GWB, who was a neocon just like Trump.

I'm not sure what fantasy land you're living in, but the job growth is due to the change to leadership. Remember when having a low GDP and high unemployment "was the new normal and something we'd have to get used to". We still have a middle class and under socialism we'd simply have the 1% ruling class, which would all be wealthy Democrats and then the poor class, the 99% of the rest of us. I rather not turn into China or Venezuela, as both are examples of what socialism and communism leads to.

 

[Lacius]

I'm not sure what fantasy land you're living in, but the job growth is due to the change to leadership.

Yes, I agree. The job growth is because of the change in leadership from Bush to Obama. The rate of job growth hasn't changed much since Trump took office.

 

[WD_GASTER2]

I'm not sure what fantasy land you're living in, but the job growth is due to the change to leadership. Remember when having a low GDP and high unemployment "was the new normal and something we'd have to get used to". We still have a middle class and under socialism we'd simply have the 1% ruling class, which would all be wealthy Democrats and then the poor class, the 99% of the rest of us. I rather not turn into China or Venezuela, as both are examples of what socialism and communism leads to.

job growth in the sense that there is a lot more part time jobs than full time jobs. and quite frankly its kind of a crappy deal for a lot of peeps.

 

[cots]

I am not dismissing violence from anyone. all I am saying is that antifa is larger, has committed far more violent acts and have been granted more protection/credibility than the Proud Boys.

And he's stating what might happen. You're correct and he's deflecting to make the side he chose look less guilty when in reality you're right. Xzi isn't one to admit he's wrong. Example being the Mueller report. No collusion and the Democrats were wrong, yet he won't admit that fact that he was wrong. It's a sign of weakness, not being able to admit you're wrong.

 

[WD_GASTER2]

cots to be fair... here in the politics forum I rarely hear anyone say "I was wrong"
Too many trolls that would furiously touch themselves inapropriately to someone admitting they are incorrect. ( I am talking about people being wrong in general and in no way of xzi btw)

 

[Lacius]

cots to be fair... here in the politics forum I rarely hear anyone say "I was wrong"

Cots, for example. He's been shown to be wrong a lot.

 

[cots]

Yes, I agree. The job growth is because of the change in leadership from Bush to Obama. The rate of job growth hasn't changed much since Trump took office.

Under Obama we had a decline and it wasn't until the Republicans took over that it bounced back. I understand the economy isn't just based on our current leadership and that previous policies impact it, but generally speaking the Democratic policies prevented growth and we saw a decline in jobs and the overall economy while the Republican policies did just the opposite.

 

[Lacius]

Under Obama we had a decline and it wasn't until the Republicans took over that it bounced back. I understand the economy isn't just based on our current leadership and that previous policies impact it, but generally speaking the Democratic policies prevented growth and we saw a decline in jobs and the overall economy while the Republican policies did just the opposite.

Did you forget about the Great Recession, or are you just pretending it didn't happen?

 

[cots]

Cots, for example. He's been shown to be wrong a lot.

I don't think you have proven me wrong about much as saying you're opinions are right and mine are wrong doesn't change the facts. You see things differently than me, but that doesn't make you right.

Antifa has been around longer than the Boys group and has committed more acts of violence. Prove me wrong.

 

[Lacius]

I don't think you have proven me wrong about much as saying you're opinions are right and mine are wrong doesn't change the facts. You see things differently than me, but that doesn't make you right.

What I've just said about job growth is an objective fact, and the idea that jobs went down under Obama is just absurd. He inherited the Great Recession and turned it around. You are wrong.

Antifa has been around longer than the Boys group and has committed more acts of violence. Prove me wrong.

Why are you trying to talk to me about Antifa? I think you're confusing me with someone else.

 

[WD_GASTER2]

I don't think you have proven me wrong about much as saying you're opinions are right and mine are wrong doesn't change the facts. You see things differently than me, but that doesn't make you right.
.

I am not arguing with anyone here but the problem with this though, somebody with opposing views can say the same to you and you would be left off where you started


Again not picking fights with peeps here. I opened this thread to get people's thoughts so i am backing out of any arguments here.

 

[cots]

Did you forget about the Great Recession, or are you just pretending it didn't happen?

I'm not forgetting who was in power during the recession or that both Clinton's and Bush's policies caused it. I'm not arguing the raw data about job growth under Obama,but you're using it out of context.

https://www.investors.com/politics/...rowth-the-chart-obama-doesnt-want-you-to-see/

Under. Trump there has been more job growth and no major decline. Yes, Obama's administration helped get us out of the recession and there was a lot of bipartisan effort that went into that, but the growth is greatly overstated and under Republican leadership it's gotten better and hasn't declined. It about context. Sort of like how you'll argue a face with me based on a very minute factor to justify the viewpoint of the majority. I'm not debating the minute factor, just stating it's insecnificant shouldn't be used out of context to try to win an argument. Same thing about the minority non-issues being pushed on people from the left to gain sympathy for thier cause - it's inseqential and doesn't matter. Basically, it's a derailing technique that I don't buy into. "What about the minute possiblity that something very rare could happen?" It's a rare minority that isn't likely to happen so I'm not going to worry about it. Context, buddy. Context.

 

[Lacius]

Under Obama we had a decline and it wasn't until the Republicans took over that it bounced back. I understand the economy isn't just based on our current leadership and that previous policies impact it, but generally speaking the Democratic policies prevented growth and we saw a decline in jobs and the overall economy while the Republican policies did just the opposite.

Respectfully, until I see a concession, I'm not interested in continuing this conversation.

 

[SG854]

I am not arguing with anyone here but the problem with this though, somebody with opposing views can say the same to you and you would be left off where you started


Again not picking fights with peeps here. I opened this thread to get people's thoughts so i am backing out of any arguments here.

Too much pandering and ridiculousness.

I don’t think they’ll beat Trump. Polling data says Dem candidates will beat Trump but that’s what they said about Hillary and look what happened. News outlets polling data is unreliable.

I would instead pay attention to Data collected but Economists because they are more accurate. They account for the Economy, hugely influential to presidential election. Public opinion is generally positive about the Economy right now. And if the Economy continues this positive trend Trump will win re-election. Economic models after economic models puts Trump at a landslide victory. And the same models predicted previous presidents. And accurately predicted a Trump 2016 victory, when all other poling data put Hilary at a landslide victory.

As long a recession doesn’t happen or we don’t go to an unnecessary war with Iran Trump will win. With Iran Trump promised to be non interventionist but with the way he handled things recently he’s not being consistent and it’s like he said it with his fingers crossed. There’s people slapping sense into him right now but Trump is all over place so who knows what will happen?

 

[Lacius]

Too much pandering and ridiculousness.

I don’t think they’ll beat Trump. Polling data says Dem candidates will beat Trump but that’s what they said about Hillary and look what happened. News outlets polling data is unreliable.

I would instead pay attention to Data collected but Economists because they are more accurate. They account for the Economy, hugely influential to presidential election. Public opinion is generally positive about the Economy right now. And if the Economy continues this positive trend Trump will win re-election. Economic models after economic models puts Trump at a landslide victory. And the same models predicted previous presidents.

As long a recession doesn’t happen or we don’t go to an unnecessary war with Iran Trump will win. With Iran Trump promised to be non interventionist but with the way he handled things recently he’s not being consistent and it’s like he said it with his fingers crossed. There’s people slapping sense into him right now but Trump is all over place so who knows?

The polling in 2016 was fairly accurate. What ended up actually happening was only slightly to the right of the polls and was well within the margins of error. You have to remember that Clinton won the popular vote by about 3 million votes (pretty much where she was in the polls), and Trump won the Electoral College by only 78,000 votes.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the polling showed Clinton ahead by narrow margins in 2016. While a lot can happen between now and the 2020 election, Biden and others are far more ahead of Trump in the head-to-head polls than Clinton was.

 

[cots]

I'm not sure whether or not you're being serious. Regardless, LGBT rights are a real issue.

Why is the LGBTQ issue a real issue to you? Are you part of the LGBTQ group? Other than for political purposes how are you effected by the issue? If the Liberals weren't using the issue and the LGBTQ group as political pawns would you even be concerned with them? I'd like an answer to each question.

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job growth in the sense that there is a lot more part time jobs than full time jobs. and quite frankly its kind of a crappy deal for a lot of peeps.

Well, overall there are more jobs and more people are working, but due to policies like universal health care and minimum wage increases we have more employers hiring part time. Regardless more people are working so that's better than having them not working at all. Under the previous administration we were told things were as good as they were going to get and we should get used to it which the current administration proved wrong.