Do you find nazi imagery offensive?

[Stepperer]

I find nazis offensive. Images aside

 

[Deleted member 569431]

All politicians want is wealth and power regardless of the economic or political system in place. The dangers of all forms of socialism (be it national-socialism, fascism, communism or cultural marxism) is that these ideologies give a golden ticket for politicians to do whatever they want while claiming to be doing it "for the greater good of the society". This gives them way more power than normal, a false sensation of legitimacy and a wildcard to attack anyone that opposes them (if you're against me, you're against the common folk). This is why the nazis would send people to gas chambers: because those people are enemies of the society we want to build for the better of the rest of us. It's also why communists would happily send homosexuals (and businessmen, clerics and intellectuals) to concentration camps: we want to build a new society with nothing but hard workers, so there's no place for "bourgeois degenerates", only tough and manly workers.

'Cultural marxism' is an antisemitic trope, ironic you use that in the context in this thread with its origins in Nazi propaganda. Wherever you picked that up, you'd want to cut it out of your life. The Wikipedia page is actually decent at outlining it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory. As Ive already said, National-Socialism was nothing to do with socialism, it took the name for propaganda reasons. Youre going to have to do a good bit of critical self reflection for your own sake.

 

[linuxares]

For using it in historical and deceptions in fiction etc. No.
For hate? Yeah.

But do you know what I hate even more? When the braindead Nazi's can't even make the Swastika properly!

 

[Ottoclav]

From my perspective, nazi propaganda actually made good things implicitly.

For instance, British counter-attacked Nazi propaganda with good pieces of art.
The now meme "KEEP CALM AND..." (originally being CARRY ON)

was made to inspire bravery and acceptance amidst German invasion.
Don't misunderstand, but that poster was just the begging of many important movements around the world.

After that poster got popular, all men went to the war limiting industrial production.

That led to the use of femenine power in factories and other important production jobs.
After that, this poster emerged:

This poster didn't just empowered women.
It was the start for women pursuing equality in obligations and rights.

Nazi propaganda wasn't just bad stuff, but to me, "Keep calm" and "We can do it" are too Nazi propaganda (given the period this came out to counter german nationalism ).

After this period, we have the movements that led to women being able to vote for the first time, to get equal jobs as men, more education, and that feminine movement, also inspired the civil war to fight against slavery in the US.

Everything is tied together, implicitly, but it's a connection we can't deny.

Women in the States were voting as far back as 1870, and the 19th Amendment was added to the US Constitution in 1920. Women in Ireland were voting (with caveats) in 1918. These came about at the end of the First Great War, not the Second. Slavery was ended in the US in 1865. The earliest signs of the Women's Rights movement was in Seneca Falls in the summer of 1848, this may have had an impact in ending slavery, but it all happened before the Second Great War, without the help of counter-Nazi-Propaganda.

 

[Subtle Demise]

Hard for me to be offended by something I've been exposed to since early childhood through things like Wolfenstein 3D, Indiana Jones, etc. Such imagery can also be used ironically as a social commentary of sorts. For instance, the band Throbbing Gristle often used the imagery and Holocaust themes in their music, album art, and live shows, partly for shock value, but mostly as a sort of exposé of the industrialization of mankind itself, which is how the genre of industrial music started. The logo of their short-lived underground record label, Industrial Records, was a grainy image of an Auschwitz crematorium.

Again, such images were meant as a protest against the movements, and not an endorsement of them. There were later industrial acts that would glorify Nazis, (i.e. Death in June, Boyd Rice, Whitehouse, etc.) but those are a different story.

 

[Ottoclav]

'Cultural marxism' is an antisemitic trope, ironic you use that in the context in this thread with its origins in Nazi propaganda. Wherever you picked that up, you'd want to cut it out of your life. The Wikipedia page is actually decent at outlining it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory. As Ive already said, National-Socialism was nothing to do with socialism, it took the name for propaganda reasons. Youre going to have to do a good bit of critical self reflection for your own sake.

National-Socialism was socialism, using race theory at its core instead of the class system. There were definitely a lot of quirks to this, since Hitler couldn't erase the idea of "individualism" from his form of rhetoric, as opposed to the "traditional" class system that communists like to pursue, where individualism is tightly controlled, if not discouraged. You forget that Socialism is in fact the "governing entity controlling all forms of production." Nazi Germany was very much a Socialist State. Hitler's writings are soaked in socialism. But if we are to compare apples to apples, the "Real" Socialists, i.e. C.C.C.R., killed far more people (including sooo many of its own people) than the Nazi's did, it puts a real good spotlight on what socialism is really capable of.

 

[Acid_Snake]

'Cultural marxism' is an antisemitic trope, ironic you use that in the context in this thread with its origins in Nazi propaganda. Wherever you picked that up, you'd want to cut it out of your life. The Wikipedia page is actually decent at outlining it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory. As Ive already said, National-Socialism was nothing to do with socialism, it took the name for propaganda reasons. Youre going to have to do a good bit of critical self reflection for your own sake.

Propaganda is saying that fascism has anything to do with right wing ideology which is false from the point of view of the french revolution where right wing was basically absolute monarchy or mercantilism at best (take note that this is the basis of our modern day democracies where right-wing means less people have power while left wing means that power is spread across more people). Marxism, fascism and national-socialism are left wing in regards of those political coordinates that we inherited from the french revolution.

- The very first ally of nazi germany and number one commercial partner was the USSR. It was in fact the Kaiser who sent Lennin to Russia to create the Soviet Union so that Russia would drop out of WWI and allied with Germany.

- The ultimate enemy of nazism was Capitalist America and their allies (France, UK, etc).

As socialists, we are opponents of the Jews, because we see in the Hebrews the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation's goods.


Joseph Goebbels

 

[Ottoclav]

Propaganda is saying that fascism has anything to do with right wing ideology which is false from the point of view of the french revolution where right wing was basically absolute monarchy or mercantilism at best (take note that this is the basis of our modern day democracies where right-wing means less people have power while left wing means that power is spread across more people). Marxism, fascism and national-socialism are left wing in regards of those political coordinates that we inherited from the french revolution.

- The very first ally of nazi germany and number one commercial partner was the USSR. It was in fact the Kaiser who sent Lennin to Russia to create the Soviet Union so that Russia would drop out of WWI and allied with Germany.

- The ultimate enemy of nazism was Capitalist America and their allies (France, UK, etc).

As socialists, we are opponents of the Jews, because we see in the Hebrews the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation's goods.


Joseph Goebbels

Well said. It's all about perspective and frame-of-reference.

 

[Deleted member 569431]

National-Socialism was socialism, using race theory at its core instead of the class system. There were definitely a lot of quirks to this, since Hitler couldn't erase the idea of "individualism" from his form of rhetoric, as opposed to the "traditional" class system that communists like to pursue, where individualism is tightly controlled, if not discouraged. You forget that Socialism is in fact the "governing entity controlling all forms of production." Nazi Germany was very much a Socialist State. Hitler's writings are soaked in socialism. But if we are to compare apples to apples, the "Real" Socialists, i.e. C.C.C.R., killed far more people (including sooo many of its own people) than the Nazi's did, it puts a real good spotlight on what socialism is really capable of.

I answered that earlier, but in short the Nazis wanted to establish a 'racial' state with Jewish people at the very bottom of the hierarchy. The claim that the Nazis were socialist is a recent invention by different US based commentators and has no basis in historical accuracy. They were a populist based movement. The socialist in the title was there at the time for mass appeal, to claim that they were the real ones fighting for the workers against 'industrialists' ie Jewish people. Their early days were spent fighting socialists, communists etc on the streets which is why they established the SA (the paramilitary wing). Immediately after taking power, socialists were the first group sent to concentration camps while all unions were banned save the 'official' Party union which was no union at all.. The war against the USSR was against 'Jewish-Bolshevism' as they put it. The Nazis had nothing to do with socialism bar propaganda and trying to subvert their fanbase.

 

[Deleted member 569431]

Propaganda is saying that fascism has anything to do with right wing ideology which is false from the point of view of the french revolution where right wing was basically absolute monarchy or mercantilism at best (take note that this is the basis of our modern day democracies where right-wing means less people have power while left wing means that power is spread across more people). Marxism, fascism and national-socialism are left wing in regards of those political coordinates that we inherited from the french revolution.

- The very first ally of nazi germany and number one commercial partner was the USSR. It was in fact the Kaiser who sent Lennin to Russia to create the Soviet Union so that Russia would drop out of WWI and allied with Germany.

- The ultimate enemy of nazism was Capitalist America and their allies (France, UK, etc).

As socialists, we are opponents of the Jews, because we see in the Hebrews the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation's goods.


Joseph Goebbels

And as I said before, youre putting a lot of faith in the words of Nazi's and again ironically their Propaganda Minister. The fact you (unknowingly Im sure) made reference to antisemitic conspiracy theories should in itself be causing you not to be going further down this road. I also never mentioned 'left' 'right' or any other wing, its not relevant to this ie whether National Socialism is in fact Socialism. Its not. Socialism is Jewish in origin, Marx was Jewish.

Also the Kaiser had nothing to do with the Nazi's so Im not sure why you're bringing him up. You might have mentioned the Non Aggression Pact between Nazi Germany and the USSR in 1938 if you were trying to cite 'proof' of such a connection but it was a pact of convenience to buy Stalin time to rearm. The Nazis broke the pact with the invasion in 42.

 

[Acid_Snake]

I answered that earlier, but in short the Nazis wanted to establish a 'racial' state with Jewish people at the very bottom of the hierarchy. The claim that the Nazis were socialist is a recent invention by different US based commentators and has no basis in historical accuracy. They were a populist based movement. The socialist in the title was there at the time for mass appeal, to claim that they were the real ones fighting for the workers against 'industrialists' ie Jewish people. Their early days were spent fighting socialists, communists etc on the streets which is why they established the SA (the paramilitary wing). Immediately after taking power, socialists were the first group sent to concentration camps while all unions were banned save the 'official' Party union which was no union at all.. The war against the USSR was against 'Jewish-Bolshevism' as they put it. The Nazis had nothing to do with socialism bar propaganda and trying to subvert their fanbase.

Maybe you should learn to read and search for actual historical quotes and sources (like anything ever said or written by Hitler and company). Nobody in America says that the Nazis are socialists mainly because Americans have absolutely no clue what nazism is (it happened thousands of miles away from the US almost 100 years ago, americans only got in contact with a decaying and almost dead Nazi Germany).
Socialism has many faces and interpretations, it's not just incorrect but outright false to claim that marxism is the one and only socialist ideology; socialism is older than Marx himself.

 

[Acid_Snake]

And as I said before, youre putting a lot of faith in the words of Nazi's and again ironically their Propaganda Minister. The fact you (unknowingly Im sure) made reference to antisemitic conspiracy theories should in itself be causing you not to be going further down this road. I also never mentioned 'left' 'right' or any other wing, its not relevant to this ie whether National Socialism is in fact Socialism. Its not. Socialism is Jewish in origin, Marx was Jewish.

And you put a lot of faith in Marx' interpretation of socialism since you believe he was the first and only socialist ever.

 

[Deleted member 569431]

Maybe you should learn to read and search for actual historical quotes and sources (like anything ever said or written by Hitler and company). Nobody in America says that the Nazis are socialists mainly because Americans have absolutely no clue what nazism is (it happened thousands of miles away from the US almost 100 years ago, americans only got in contact with a decaying and almost dead Nazi Germany).
Socialism has many faces and interpretations, it's not just incorrect but outright false to claim that marxism is the one and only socialist ideology; socialism is older than Marx himself.

I never said Marx was the 'first and only' socialist, I put him forward as the best known name to show why the Nazis in fact hated socialism. It is in fact Jewish in origin and my source is the Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Israel, I was lucky enough to study there. I strongly recommend you park your preconceptions, get in contact with them and run your narrative with them if you dont believe me. Youve already been blind to the fact you were using antisemitic tropes and tbh theres no good place to go with that narrative you're digging yourself into. Best of luck.

 

[Purple_Heart]

i hate Nazis.....i may live in Germany but offended not really only if ppl make jokes about that. My origin is Turkey.

 

[MockyLock]

Such a picky thread for a newcomer...

 

[Acid_Snake]

I never said Marx was the 'first and only' socialist, I put him forward as the best known name to show why the Nazis in fact hated socialism. It is in fact Jewish in origin and my source is the Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Israel, I was lucky enough to study there. I strongly recommend you park your preconceptions, get in contact with them and run your narrative with them if you dont believe me. Youve already been blind to the fact you were using antisemitic tropes and tbh theres no good place to go with that narrative you're digging yourself into. Best of luck.

The Nazis didn't hate socialism, they hated Marx' interpretation of socialism and considered their own ideology the one true form of socialism. One of the main reasons they hated the Jews was in fact that they have a very capitalist culture, which makes them very successful businessmen even on times of crisis.
If you ever wondered how the Nazis achieved the "economic miracle" of recovering from the disaster of the Weimar Republic, it was basically what any other socialist would do: stop paying WWI reparations and expropriating rich businesses (Jew-owned in this case). Marxists would do the same, but use class warfare instead of race warfare to justify their crimes.
The end result is the same, the fight between communism and fascism (totalitarian left-right) is not about what political or economic system to have (that will always be a socialist totalitarian state, there's no true choice here), but rather how to get there and which people can be allowed to form part of the system.

As for the antisemitic tropes, if you talk about the ocean you will have to talk about water. We are talking about Nazism and their similarities and differences with Communism, there's going to be lots of nasty words and phrases that come from those political coordinates. One must not ignore this or let emotions get in the way if doing an objective analysis. I don't care if cultural marxism comes from the communists or if it was invented by the fascists as propaganda, the point is those terms emanate from that political coordinate.

 

[Deleted member 569431]

Dude, all I can say now is Ive given you the information and at some point youre going to have to accept it. Or not, its up to yourself. Theres nothing emotional in it. The 'economic miracle' you talk about was due to Weimar policies kicking in post crash and predated the Nazi's. The Nazis then poured everything into armaments and everything connected to gearing the country for war. All looked well on the outside but different sectors warned Hitler about an overheating economy. He ignored them, as territorial expansion and the resources that would bring would feed into the economy during 1930's and 40's expansion. VERY capitalist. Not paying reparations is not specifically a socialist move (nationalism fed into it for example along with the financial crash of the 1930's). Your arguments are based on selective fact picking and fitting them to a narrative, whoever taught you that was bulshitting you. As for your point about antisemitic tropes and water, you did not use it in the context of deconstructing it, you specifically identified it as an aspect of socialism. Just to be clear (and tbf you seem to be acknowledging it above): There is no such thing as 'cultural marxism' which was the point. Its an antisemitic conspiracy theory. I really have to go now!

 

[Acid_Snake]

Dude, all I can say now is Ive given you the information and at some point youre going to have to accept it.

What information did you give again? Other than mentioning Israel, one of the most anti-socialist (including anti-fascist and anti-communist) and pro-capitalist country ever.
I can keep quoting some of the top level nazi officials (including the mustache guy) and socialism (anti-capitalism) is always their excuse for their crimes.

 

[Blavla]

Hitler made the Autobahn, recycling law . etc
The American slave trade caused 5 million deaths or more. Let´s just say more. And let´s just say there is still black hate in USA.

Holocaust around 6 million so I presume that the border is around 6 million?

Fun fact. Did you know that there where more Nazi supporters in USA then in Germany before the WWII ??

btw I am not german

 

[Lamhirh]

Informative mostly.