Lockpick rcm dmca notice

[Bladexdsl]

You know the rest

putin will launch a nuke at nintendo HQ?

 

[The Catboy]

I'm sadly not a lawyer so I don't even know if lockpick is illegal. I highly doubt it is. This seem to be a knee jerk attack against emulators.

Despite the fact that emulation isn’t illegal. It sucks that the DMCA doesn’t require proving what illegal files are contained and just broadly allows anyone to abuse it

 

[Bladexdsl]

Despite the fact that emulation isn’t illegal.

you know the drill if NINTENDO says it is than it must be their word is law!

 

[chrisrlink]

putin will launch a nuke at nintendo HQ?

i would love to see that honestly

 

[User154]

That’s almost certainly why. Question is, is homebrew like Lockpick illegal? Sharing the keys afterwards has almost gotta be, but is the homebrew to dump them from your own console illegal?

My thought is no, as long as no proprietary code from Nintendo is used to do it. But I’m not a lawyer.

Their lawyers will most likely try and state it is a tool specifically designed to circumvent copy protection. I'm not a lawyer so its hard to say who is right from a legal perspective but I think if we try and look at this as if we were one of Nintendo's lawyers its easy to see what they might say:

"Software that is specifically designed to circumvent software is illegal.

Lockpick rcm was specifically designed to get keys that could be used to circumvent copy protection. We fully believe that lockpick rcm was designed for the sole purpose of aiding people in circumventing copy protection."

They do this knowing that chances are noone is going to pay to hire lawyers to defend their right to release a free piece of software. Especially if its just an idividual against the full legal might of Nintendo. So ultimately they win without ever having to go to court and prove the claims they are making.

 

[Ryab]

What is the difference between the two?

 

[linuxares]

What is the difference between the two?

Lockpick old, Lockpick RCM new

 

[tabzer]

DMCA was designed to be abused

DMCA is abuse.

 

[SubstituteCS]

I'm sadly not a lawyer so I don't even know if lockpick is illegal. I highly doubt it is. This seem to be a knee jerk attack against emulators.

It's extremely unlikely that lockpick is illegal.

However, if lockpick re-implements any code that was reverse engineered (and seen by the developer) then one could argue that the tool is violating Nintendo's copyright.

Cleanroom/Whiteroom programming exists where one team reverse engineers X and drafts a spec for another team to implement. The implementing team never sees the any form of the original software which helps in a defense against copyright infringement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design

The other question that remains open is if lockpick is a DRM circumvention tool, which are illegal.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

I'm not a lawyer either but my college forced everyone in the Computer Science degree path to take a long and boring class regarding the legal and ethical concerns in the field.

Their lawyers will most likely try and state it is a tool specifically designed to circumvent copy protection. I'm not a lawyer so its hard to say who is right from a legal perspective but I think if we try and look at this as if we were one of Nintendo's lawyers its easy to see what they might say:

"Software that is specifically designed to circumvent software is illegal.

Lockpick rcm was specifically designed to get keys that could be used to circumvent copy protection. We fully believe that lockpick rcm was designed for the sole purpose of aiding people in circumventing copy protection."

They do this knowing that chances are noone is going to pay to hire lawyers to defend their right to release a free piece of software. Especially if its just an idividual against the full legal might of Nintendo. So ultimately they win without ever having to go to court and prove the claims they are making.

I could see it going the route that the PS3 master key went (the George Hotz lawsuit) but I think Nintendo would have an uphill battle there as the keys are being extracted for the specific console by the owner of the console and aren't being distributed.

This section though is really open to interpretation
https://www.law.cornell.edu/definit...999&term_src=title:17:chapter:12:section:1201

 

[IRUZZ]

Just imagine if copying MP3s off a CD you own and bought was illegal. That's pretty much the same thing Nintendon't is trying to do.

 

[SubstituteCS]

Just imagine if copying MP3s off a CD you own and bought was illegal. That's pretty much the same thing Nintendon't is trying to do.

It is if the CDs have copy protection. There’s just no incentive to go after home users.

Ripping a CD is legal. Circumventing DRM is not.

 

[Dungeonseeker]

Isn't this kinda like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted? The game is out and its keys are out, people have them and are playing the game. What good is it to try and stop key dumping now? Even if they revoke the key (honestly not sure if that's a thing in this context) and issue a new one, what does that do? Legit buyers get a minor update and pirates simply ignore it and keep playing what they already have.

Post automatically merged: May 6, 2023

It is if the CDs have copy protection. There’s just no incentive to go after home users.

Ripping a CD is legal. Circumventing DRM is not.

You got a source for this? AFAIK its never been tested in a court and is considered nebulous at best. Remember that, just because a ToS says something it doesn't mean that thing is legal/enforceable. The simple fact the GameCopyWorld has existed since the mid 00s and has never once been attacked by any rights holder speaks volumes as to how "legal" breaking DRM is.

Also fuck nintendo, honestly I'd pirate TotK myself if a gave enough of a shit just to stick a finger up to N, luckily for them I really don't give a fuck anymore. I will simply never buy anything from them again, the last Nintendo product I bought was a WiiU back when they were selling them at 60% off because nobody cared.

 

[SubstituteCS]

Isn't this kinda like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted? The game is out and its keys are out, people have them and are playing the game. What good is it to try and stop key dumping now? Even if they revoke the key (honestly not sure if that's a thing in this context) and issue a new one, what does that do? Legit buyers get a minor update and pirates simply ignore it and keep playing what they already have.

Post automatically merged: May 6, 2023

You got a source for this? AFAIK its never been tested in a court and is considered nebulous at best. Remember that, just because a ToS says something it doesn't mean that thing is legal/enforceable. The simple fact the GameCopyWorld has existed since the mid 00s and has never once been attacked by any rights holder speaks volumes as to how "legal" breaking DRM is.

Also fuck nintendo, honestly I'd pirate TotK myself if a gave enough of a shit just to stick a finger up to N, luckily for them I really don't give a fuck anymore. I will simply never buy anything from them again, the last Nintendo product I bought was a WiiU back when they were selling them at 60% off because nobody cared.

In my preceding post I linked excerpts.

It's extremely unlikely that lockpick is illegal.

However, if lockpick re-implements any code that was reverse engineered (and seen by the developer) then one could argue that the tool is violating Nintendo's copyright.

Cleanroom/Whiteroom programming exists where one team reverse engineers X and drafts a spec for another team to implement. The implementing team never sees the any form of the original software which helps in a defense against copyright infringement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design

The other question that remains open is if lockpick is a DRM circumvention tool, which are illegal.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

I'm not a lawyer either but my college forced everyone in the Computer Science degree path to take a long and boring class regarding the legal and ethical concerns in the field.


I could see it going the route that the PS3 master key went (the George Hotz lawsuit) but I think Nintendo would have an uphill battle there as the keys are being extracted for the specific console by the owner of the console and aren't being distributed.

This section though is really open to interpretation
https://www.law.cornell.edu/definit...999&term_src=title:17:chapter:12:section:1201

There’s also this page which helps to more clearly explain the overly complicated legalese of the US codes.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/circumventing-copyright-controls

Circumventing access protection is illegal per the DMCA though. Why do you think there are no USA based ripping tools?

These keys are part of the access protection of the DRM that Nintendo employees. The argument to be made is if a tool designed to extract these keys is in violation of circumventing the access control scheme.

 

[stanleyopar2000]

They are doing this so that way with Lockpick RCM removed and no more updates, they will release 17.0 with new keys and they won't be dumped (since no updates to Lockpick RCM), making emulation of future titles impossible.

 

[IRUZZ]

In my preceding post I linked excerpts.

There’s also this page which helps to more clearly explain the overly complicated legalese of the US codes.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/circumventing-copyright-controls

Circumventing access protection is illegal per the DMCA though. Why do you think there are no USA based ripping tools?

These keys are part of the access protection of the DRM that Nintendo employees. The argument to be made is if a tool designed to extract these keys is in violation of circumventing the access control scheme.

Man why is the US legal system such a clusterfuck when it comes to digital rights

 

[SubstituteCS]

Man why is the US legal system such a clusterfuck when it comes to digital rights

Old dinosaurs in office with zero understanding about digital rights.

 

[linuxares]

Old dinosaurs in office with zero understanding about digital rights.

Big companies with loads of money, pay lobbiest to keep the digital laws strict in their favor.

 

[SubstituteCS]

Big companies with loads of money, pay lobbiest to keep the digital laws strict in their favor.

After reading the quoted notice from the news post, it looks like Nintendo is betting on the the specific sections I linked earlier in the thread to go after lockpick.

Well, guess we’ll see how it all shakes out. That’s about as far as anyone here can speculate.

 

[linuxares]

After reading the quoted notice from the news post, it looks like Nintendo is betting on the the specific sections I linked earlier in the thread to go after lockpick.

Well, guess we’ll see how it all shakes out. That’s about as far as anyone here can speculate.

I know which law they try. I read the take down notice after all

 

[master801]

Just imagine if copying MP3s off a CD you own and bought was illegal. That's pretty much the same thing Nintendon't is trying to do.

*Cough* Sony audio CD rootkit