The U.S. is more dangerously divided than any other wealthy democracy. Is there a way back from the brink? (Yascha Mounk)

[Deleted member 586536]

Mutilating kids is not a treatment.

And that's my daily dose of you.
I've gone over this how many times now?
How many?
FFs.
Hormone therapy (including puberty blockers in this statement. Which is done at 12) is only done at the age 16. That's it.
Nothing else happens while they are a kid
Sex change (changing your whatever's to something else) is strictly at 21+ thing.

No matter how many times I tell you, no matter how many times I try to get through to you, no matter what amount of effort I try. You come back to the exact same talking points. And that's why I'm tired of it. Because I'm not talking to a person. I'm talking to some brick wall who pretends they know more than doctors and believes they are infallable.

 

[TraderPatTX]

And that's my daily dose of you.
I've gone over this how many times now?
How many?
FFs.
Hormone therapy (including puberty blockers in this statement. Which is done at 12) is only done at the age 16. That's it.
Nothing else happens while they are a kid
Sex change (changing your whatever's to something else) is strictly at 21+ thing.

No matter how many times I tell you, no matter how many times I try to get through to you, no matter what amount of effort I try. You come back to the exact same talking points. And that's why I'm tired of it. Because I'm not talking to a person. I'm talking to some brick wall who pretends they know more than doctors and believes they are infallable.

Sorry if I refuse to take your word on things when you provide no proof and I see the exact opposite being pushed everywhere. If you notice, I provided a link disproving you and a picture that you completely ignored because you can't defend it.

I know you can't see me, but I'm flipping you off and laughing hysterically.

 

[mrdude]

"Hey, you can't just call me slurs for asking you to use different pronouns."

Pronouns are Sooooo yesterday, today it's all about adjectives - you can now refer to me as "The Supreme Overlord", if you don't I'll be offended and start bitching about it to anyone that will listen.....hopefully Soros, The MSM and Antifa will be on my side.

 

[appleburger]

That's easy. The transgender agenda is spread by the state-run media with huge assists from social media and fact checkers. It's how a minority voice seems to be a majority.

They are forced to silence dissenting speech (Libs of TikTok) because their arguments do not hold up. It's interesting that the University of Washington Medicine quietly retracted their study showing that hormone treatments and gender reassignment surgery drastically decreased depression in trans teens. The study was flawed and collapsed when questioned. Parents are actually announcing that their 4 year olds are coming out as trans. That's not an original idea from a 4 year old. That idea was planted there by someone seeking attention.

People with gender dysphoria need psychological help, not irreversible hormone treatments and surgery. My heart goes out to them because they are being lied to.

Why anybody still puts their trust in the media is beyond me. They lie about everything. They are just trying to divide us into smaller and smaller groups so we continually fight each other and ignore their crimes. And we keep falling for it.

Don't worry about asking too many questions. I hope my response clears a few things up for you.

Perfect, this is what I was looking for. Let's keep going. I'm going to select your opening statement first:

The transgender agenda is spread by the state-run media with huge assists from social media and fact checkers. It's how a minority voice seems to be a majority.

So, I think we can break this into these parts (Please change what I have in bold, if we're not on the same page):

There is a transgender agenda.
I'm assuming this is what we both would mean by agenda:
the ongoing process by which various groups attempt to transfer their interests to be the interests of public policymakers.

This agenda is spread by state-run media, social media, and fact checkers.
So, would you say the adoption of this agenda is equally due to each of these? Why or why not? I read it as the state-run media is the perpetuator, and then affirmed by social media and fact checkers.

This agenda reflects a minority opinion. The majority of Americans disagree with the points from the agenda.
I think we can attempt to put this to the test. Now, I don't expect either of us to have full knowledge of what's going on, of course, but we can use some evidence to help make sense of why you or I would be convinced otherwise.

The first step will be to agree on a decent source for measuring this. I think our best bet will be through survey research, though I'm open to suggestion.

As for the ideal 'perfect' source, we'd need to find something as nonbiased as possible, however I realize that's a tall order. My vote is Pewresearch: https://www.pewresearch.org/about/

Quick article defending the reliability of Pew: https://www.thefactual.com/blog/is-pew-research-biased/

Pew is often used as a source for fact checker sites itself, so I felt it'd make sense to go that route, but I'm open to suggestions if you want to pull in survey data from elsewhere - we can also wait to pass judgment until after we pull up a survey to reference our points and go from there.

*Edited for clarity

 

[sombrerosonic]

Fascism: The complete control of economy, politics, and culture, all under one party in a nation that exalts racial purity and supremacy over all else

What fascism is not: "Hey, you can't just call me slurs for asking you to use different pronouns."

Well, yea.... thats just common decency

 

[LainaGabranth]

Pronouns are Sooooo yesterday, today it's all about adjectives - you can now refer to me as "The Supreme Overlord", if you don't I'll be offended and start bitching about it to anyone that will listen.....hopefully Soros, The MSM and Antifa will be on my side.

I feel bad for the conservatives who have to tell themselves posts like this are funny LMAO

 

[sombrerosonic]

came back, how u all doin, hope you all enjoy the arguing, i know i am

 

[tabzer]

I feel bad for the conservatives who have to tell themselves posts like this are funny LMAO

Who do they think they are fooling? LMAO

 

[Marc_LFD]

It's not just the U.S., most of the Western world.

If I could I would just ditch to some other planet to avoid the insanity and nonsense. Whomever created humans gave them too much power and now there's humanoids trying to play deities.

I honestly wouldn't mind living without technology, it'd actually be a breath of fresh air. Just nature and what comes of it.

 

[LainaGabranth]

Complaining about humans as a race is a very weak take. Realizing that it's people in power who have created systems that unjustly coerce people into behaving irrationally just to survive and keep said higher ups in power, and then wanting to [REDACTED] said people in power is the best outlook. Wanting to abandon a planet because your slave masters made your neighbor a shithead is weak nerd shit.

 

[tabzer]

So it's not your fault that you are a shithead. It's the fault of your "slave masters". Compelling.

 

[SG854]

Pronouns are Sooooo yesterday, today it's all about adjectives - you can now refer to me as "The Supreme Overlord", if you don't I'll be offended and start bitching about it to anyone that will listen.....hopefully Soros, The MSM and Antifa will be on my side.

Does mrsdude approve of this behavior?

 

[TraderPatTX]

Perfect, this is what I was looking for. Let's keep going. I'm going to select your opening statement first:


So, I think we can break this into these parts (Please change what I have in bold, if we're not on the same page):

There is a transgender agenda.
I'm assuming this is what we both would mean by agenda:
the ongoing process by which various groups attempt to transfer their interests to be the interests of public policymakers.

You see it every day. School boards making policy against parents' wishes. The fact that they are telling kids to not tell their parents tells you all you need to know. These same policies get pushed to the state and national level.

This agenda is spread by state-run media, social media, and fact checkers.
So, would you say the adoption of this agenda is equally due to each of these? Why or why not? I read it as the state-run media is the perpetuator, and then affirmed by social media and fact checkers.

I would say that 10 years ago, nobody was talking about this until the media started focusing on it. Back in the day, today's "trans" were just cross-dressers and tomboys.

This agenda reflects a minority opinion. The majority of Americans disagree with the points from the agenda.
I think we can attempt to put this to the test. Now, I don't expect either of us to have full knowledge of what's going on, of course, but we can use some evidence to help make sense of why you or I would be convinced otherwise.

Obviously transgender along with the rest of the alphabet people are minorities or they wouldn't be able to say they are oppressed. Yet they never say how they are oppressed. Minors in general are not allowed to undergo medical procedures without parental consent, trans or not. Not sure what other "rights" are being trampled as it's never said.

The first step will be to agree on a decent source for measuring this. I think our best bet will be through survey research, though I'm open to suggestion.

As for the ideal 'perfect' source, we'd need to find something as nonbiased as possible, however I realize that's a tall order. My vote is Pewresearch: https://www.pewresearch.org/about/

Quick article defending the reliability of Pew: https://www.thefactual.com/blog/is-pew-research-biased/

Pew is often used as a source for fact checker sites itself, so I felt it'd make sense to go that route, but I'm open to suggestions if you want to pull in survey data from elsewhere - we can also wait to pass judgment until after we pull up a survey to reference our points and go from there.

*Edited for clarity

Earlier divisions have been sexual orientation, race, sex, income, political party. How many on the left have you heard say "We are all Americans" in the last 10 years? Very few. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. The rich "elite" keep dividing us into smaller and smaller groups to pit us against each other so we ignore what they are doing and we keep falling for it every damn time. People need to understand when America loses, We the People lose, not just some of us.

 

[appleburger]

There is a transgender agenda.
I'm assuming this is what we both would mean by agenda:
the ongoing process by which various groups attempt to transfer their interests to be the interests of public policymakers.

You see it every day. School boards making policy against parents' wishes. The fact that they are telling kids to not tell their parents tells you all you need to know. These same policies get pushed to the state and national level.

This was a definition check to make sure we both mean the same thing when we say 'agenda', so I think we're in agreement with the definition.

This agenda is spread by state-run media, social media, and fact checkers.
So, would you say the adoption of this agenda is equally due to each of these? Why or why not? I read it as the state-run media is the perpetuator, and then affirmed by social media and fact checkers. I would say that 10 years ago, nobody was talking about this until the media started focusing on it. Back in the day, today's "trans" were just cross-dressers and tomboys.

I'm hearing that you feel information from the media cannot be trusted, like you've said previously. What's your preferred source for information? Why do you trust it? Do you feel your political opponents are more inclined to consume state-run media than your peers? Or do you feel the majority of people are guilty, regardless of political beliefs?

Obviously transgender along with the rest of the alphabet people are minorities or they wouldn't be able to say they are oppressed. Yet they never say how they are oppressed. Minors in general are not allowed to undergo medical procedures without parental consent, trans or not. Not sure what other "rights" are being trampled as it's never said.

I think we missed each other, here - I thought you were saying the smaller (minority) opinion looks more popular than it is due to media. As an example, "only 10% of Americans support the idea of trans identities, but the media makes it look like it's 90%" - something along those lines.

Can you help me understand what you mean by "That's how the minority sounds like the majority"?

 

[TraderPatTX]

I'm hearing that you feel information from the media cannot be trusted, like you've said previously. What's your preferred source for information? Why do you trust it? Do you feel your political opponents are more inclined to consume state-run media than your peers? Or do you feel the majority of people are guilty, regardless of political beliefs?

How many times does the corporate media have to lie before people stop believing them? I stopped taking them seriously years ago, and I'm including Fox News in that group. Judging by the comments people respond to me with here, yes, the left does consume corporate media and they don't even question it. I think we are in a transition.

I follow citizen journalists because they tend to report directly from court documents and filings and other originally sourced materials and when they are wrong, they issue public corrections, not stealth edits like the corporate media does.

I think we missed each other, here - I thought you were saying the smaller (minority) opinion looks more popular than it is due to media. As an example, "only 10% of Americans support the idea of trans identities, but the media makes it look like it's 90%" - something along those lines.

Can you help me understand what you mean by "That's how the minority sounds like the majority"?

The minority uses the corporate media, social media and Hollywood as bullhorns. Since that is what the majority of people see and hear, it gives the impression that the minority is actually a majority. That is why people are being censored and canceled on all platforms for wrongthink.

 

[appleburger]

Judging by the comments people respond to me with here, yes, the left does consume corporate media and they don't even question it. I think we are in a transition.

If you had to pick the best example of a corporate media talking point on trans activism, what would it be? What is that in conflict with?

I follow citizen journalists because they tend to report directly from court documents and filings and other originally sourced materials and when they are wrong, they issue public corrections, not stealth edits like the corporate media does.

What are some of your go-to citizen journalist sources? I won't be pedantic about it, just curious.

The minority uses the corporate media, social media and Hollywood as bullhorns. Since that is what the majority of people see and hear, it gives the impression that the minority is actually a majority. That is why people are being censored and canceled on all platforms for wrongthink.

I understand what you mean when you say 'the state-run media pushed the trans agenda', but I don't understand the minority looking like the majority just yet, because I can think of two meanings for each of those terms.

I'd like to find some more specific verbiage from minority and majority, since they're vague enough to allow for these interpretations:
1. Population of people that do/don't identify as trans
2. Population of people that do/don't agree with the trans agenda

So, when you say 'the impression that the minority is actually a majority', can you help me make that statement more specific?

Now that we're getting to some specifics, I think it's a good point to introduce some numbers. Like I said in my earlier post, you (or anybody else who) can offer an alternative if you'd like. I feel like this should be a decent one, though: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-...ws-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/

Disclaimer - I have not read this. I'm offering it as a road map for where we take this discussion, and I'll want to use some sort of frame of reference that's as close to hard data as I can afford - the source is subject to change if we want.

That being said - does any of the data on that page surprise you? Is any of it in conflict or support of what you would have expected? I'll get to reading through it and let you know what I think, assuming we're still on the same page and train of thought here.

 

[TraderPatTX]

If you had to pick the best example of a corporate media talking point on trans activism, what would it be? What is that in conflict with?

That hormone treatments are reversible.

What are some of your go-to citizen journalist sources? I won't be pedantic about it, just curious.

Depends on the topic. For this one in particular, nobody, even though Christopher Rufo does fine work.

I understand what you mean when you say 'the state-run media pushed the trans agenda', but I don't understand the minority looking like the majority just yet, because I can think of two meanings for each of those terms.

I'd like to find some more specific verbiage from minority and majority, since they're vague enough to allow for these interpretations:
1. Population of people that do/don't identify as trans
2. Population of people that do/don't agree with the trans agenda

So, when you say 'the impression that the minority is actually a majority', can you help me make that statement more specific?

Both. It is established fact that social media is full of bots programmed to push certain agendas.

Now that we're getting to some specifics, I think it's a good point to introduce some numbers. Like I said in my earlier post, you (or anybody else who) can offer an alternative if you'd like. I feel like this should be a decent one, though: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-...ws-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/

Disclaimer - I have not read this. I'm offering it as a road map for where we take this discussion, and I'll want to use some sort of frame of reference that's as close to hard data as I can afford - the source is subject to change if we want.

That being said - does any of the data on that page surprise you? Is any of it in conflict or support of what you would have expected? I'll get to reading through it and let you know what I think, assuming we're still on the same page and train of thought here.

It shows that a majority of people are against discrimination. That's easy to agree with. People shouldn't be discriminated against, especially those with mental issues. There is nothing surprising about that survey.

 

[LainaGabranth]

Christopher Rufo

LIKE CLOCKWORK LOL.
Of course you listen to the guy that manufactured the CRT outrage, it explains why you so constantly mirror his rhetoric.

 

[tabzer]

Seeing systemic racism in choosing which socks to wear is a healthy state of being.

 

[Jayro]

The U.S. is more dangerously divided than any other wealthy democracy. Is there a way back from the brink?

Absolutely. Get rid of all Libertarians and Republicans. Sounds hastey, but good can't thrive while living among evil. If we were a fully democratic nation (left-wing across the board), where everyone was caring to each other, we help the homeless, fully fund public schools, and tie the hands of billionaires (Including lobbyists), then we'd be a much better-off nation than we are now. There's literally no need to be a conservative in today's world. They're backward-thinking, pro-corporation, anti-humanitarian, greedy as fuck, they vote down anything that actually HELPS the American people, and they get very hung up on stupid things that don't really matter or concern them. (Like drag queens reading stories to children, for example.)

Post automatically merged: Dec 27, 2022

Does mrsdude approve of this behavior?

If he even had a girlfriend or wife, I'd be shocked. But then again, women are suckers for toxic men...