Trump-Appointed Judge Blocks Biden's Student Debt Relief Plan

[CommanderCool]

Yes because every single class taught in college is a gender studies class .

Kinda weird how the person mentioned that college should be a human right, basically them meaning something funded by our tax dollars, and for your counter argument you went straight to focus on gender studies/fictional literature as your main rebbuttle, thinking it's a good argument, without representing all of the classes colleges teaches, like STEM, in your argument.

Well I don't like them gender study classes so fuck them stem learners. Basically is what your argument boils down to.

i'll be a more useful member of society with knowledge and understanding of how to undergo critical thinking rather than a layabout perpetuating a hellish cycle of poverty and repetance throughout my family for generations for a crime i did not commit how am i supposed to republican logic my way through life then?

 

[TraderPatTX]

I say make the universities back all student loans. They need skin in the game too. Harvard's endowment fund is worth more than $50 billion dollars that they do not even pay taxes on. If the left were sincere about protecting the poor instead of being the corporate whores that they are, this would be something everybody could agree on. There is no reason why universities should be offering substandard degrees that lead young adults to be Starbuck's baristas with $100k of debt that they can't even discharge in a bankruptcy.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Yes because every single class taught in college is a gender studies class .

Kinda weird how the person mentioned that college should be a human right, basically them meaning something funded by our tax dollars, and for your counter argument you went straight to focus on gender studies/fictional literature as your main rebbuttle, thinking it's a good argument, without representing all of the classes colleges teaches, like STEM, in your argument.

Well I don't like them gender study classes so fuck them stem learners. Basically is what your argument boils down to.

You are misrepresenting me.
-I didn´t say it should be a human right (merely that it is)
-I differentiated between child and adult education (an adult is responsible for his or her decisions)
-I specifically made the destinction between useful and useless studies. STEM certainly belongs to the former.
-Also, I have not used "them" instead of "those". F off.

Four misrepresentations in one short paragraph. You must be a gender studies major.

 

[elrayo]

But gender studies are needed? Fictional literature is not needed either (e.g. Shakespeare). If society needs sth, there are scholarships. Those who studied sth useful, do not need debt forgiveness. Why reward bad decisions like studying the history of Street Fighter? It encourages more bad decisions.

Yes they're needed for fuck's sake. Do you even go to college? Humanities scholars are always investigating about social phenomenoms in every field, and gender is one of the most discussed studies in society. You clearly don't know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised comming from someone that thinks educations is a consumption good.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Yes they're needed for fuck's sake. Do you even go to college? Humanities scholars are always investigating about social phenomenoms in every field, and gender is one of the most discussed studies in society. You clearly don't know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised comming from someone that thinks educations is a consumption good.

What kind of job can one get with a Bachelor's in Humanities or gender studies and what is the average salary? Is it possible to make enough to pay back the $100k in student loans in a lifetime?

I'm not saying that studying humanities or gender studies is not important, just that getting a degree in it is worthless.

I don't think people need to pay to study many topics that they cover in universities. These worthless degrees are just ways for universities to make more money off of lower income people who can't make it in the STEM fields.

We all have access to the world's knowledge almost for free and can study our hobbies in our free time.

 

[SG854]

You are misrepresenting me.
-I didn´t say it should be a human right (merely that it is)

You said this

"I could study the history of Street Fighter. Why should society pay for that? Child education is a human right, not adult education."

What were you just stating a fact just because? Just to mention it without any reason for your argument? Or any reason to support your argument.

I just like to state random facts for my argument for no reason.

Stop pretending you were just stating it mearly just because..

-I differentiated between child and adult education (an adult is responsible for his or her decisions)

I don't see why helping adults is bad in anyway. Do you know the reason. Can you give me a good reason why it's bad to help them, just because they are adults isn't a good reason. And, adults should pay for their own shit without any help because they are adults and should be required to take care of themselves, isn't a good reason either. Even adults need help. Obviously.

-I specifically made the destinction between useful and useless studies. STEM certainly belongs to the former.

You did not make that distinction

You said "child education is a human right, not adult education." STEM fields are also taught in adult education. So basically you are saying no debt relief for STEM education aswell.

You consider them useful education yet you do not want debt relief for college STEM classes. So does it matter if you find it useful or not useful if you believe both STEM and gender studies should not get debt relief. Why even bring up a distinction at all if you were going to treat both the same, no funding for both.


Why even bring up gender studies at all in this topic and as a rebuttal to the other person if that wasn't the main reason to you that it shouldn't receive debt relief. If, "adults should should pay for their own shit," was you main reason to start with. And then act like the distinction has any significance in your argument. Acting like it'll completely change your argument. It doesn't.

You are misrepresenting me.
-Also, I have not used "them" instead of "those". F off.

Does it matter if I say them or those. You are just arguing semantics here just to make it seem like I'm misrepresenting you.

 

[sombrerosonic]

Wasn't the student-debt relief only going to people in power like senators and not like..... to people in collage? just asking

 

[elrayo]

What kind of job can one get with a Bachelor's in Humanities or gender studies and what is the average salary? Is it possible to make enough to pay back the $100k in student loans in a lifetime?

I'm not saying that studying humanities or gender studies is not important, just that getting a degree in it is worthless.

I don't think people need to pay to study many topics that they cover in universities. These worthless degrees are just ways for universities to make more money off of lower income people who can't make it in the STEM fields.

We all have access to the world's knowledge almost for free and can study our hobbies in our free time.

While it's true that you have it easier to find a job if you study technical stuff (like in most engineering careers) humanities are often required in big companies to ensure a good discourse analyzis/society studies that are needed to take decisions.

Overall, gender studies are required in the school/college field, so a lot of professionals go for that route. Big companies are always searching for people with studies related to humanities too, and while it's hard to land a job, the payment is good enough or at least over the minimum salary.

I also agree that people shouldn't pay to study many topics, and a lot of degrees in humanities should be shortened to less years, but this matter also has an economic/politic reason to not be applied (supersaturation of people with degrees for example) so you're right about that.

Also, even though you can learn a lot of stuff in the internet, that doesn't mean big companies will hire you. This is an stupid reality but if you have a degree you'll get A LOT more interviews compared to someone that only has knowledge, experience in some field or even studied the same career but in a "worse" university than you. The world of workforce is super discriminatory in this regard.

Contacts play a huge role too. I've met a lot of engineers that can't land a job and people with a Humanities degree who land a job inmediatly after getting out of college, just because his/her "uncle" had a company with a free vacant in an specific area, which not necessarily needs to be related to the degree.

To be honest, nepotism is a bigger problem compared to where/what to study IMO

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Stop pretending you were just stating it mearly just because..

Because you believe in human rights (I don´t). I could quote the Bible to a Christian to counter his argument. I am not pretending.

I don't see why helping adults is bad in anyway. Do you know the reason. Can you give me a good reason why it's bad to help them, just because they are adults isn't a good reason. And, adults should pay for their own shit without any help because they are adults and should be required to take care of themselves, isn't a good reason either. Even adults need help. Obviously.

Because other adults have to pay for it. Society does not owe you a bailout if you have studied sth that is not useful. We physically force children to sit in classrooms 5 days a week. It is therefore different.

You did not make that distinction

You said "child education is a human right, not adult education." STEM fields are also taught in adult education. So basically you are saying no debt relief for STEM education aswell.

If you have studied STEM and are unable to pay back your debt, you are doing something wrong. In that case, I would be against debt relief. Society (be it companies or the government) often provide scholarships in STEM.

You consider them useful education yet you do not want debt relief for college STEM classes.

Because they are useful, they do not need debt relief.

Does it matter if I say them or those. You are just arguing semantics here just to make it seem like I'm misrepresenting you.

You tried to make me sound like a hillbilly. Or are you using "them" instead of "those"?

 

[Hanafuda]

You guys are just arguing whether this student loan forgiveness gimmick was good social policy, justified, morally right, and etc. And probably cheering or demonizing the judge depending on your opinions about all that. But nobody's discussing whether such a program was within the executive branch's Constitutional authority, or if alternatively it's something that would have to be passed as legislation by Congress. But that's what the case was about, i.e. the lawyers submitted arguments on that issue, and the judge decided the case on that issue. Not whether it's a good idea or not, but whether it's something the President can even do.

 

[Deleted member 586536]

But nobody's discussing whether such a program was within the executive branch's Constitutional authority, or if alternatively it's something that would have to be passed as legislation by Congress.

"The Department of Education has tackled so much student debt already because Congress gave it a number of tools to do so. One of those tools is the Heroes Act, passed in the wake of 9/11. This law gives the secretary of education authority to “waive or modify” any provision of the law applicable to student aid programs “in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.” (Emphasis mine.) The secretary may exercise this power to “ensure” that borrowers “are not placed in a worse position financially” in relation to their loans because they were “affected” by the emergency. A “national emergency” is defined as any national emergency declared by the president. The ongoing COVID-19 pandemic surely qualifies, since Donald Trump declared it a national emergency and Biden has extended that declaration."

Trump also used the same deceleration, to appropriate funds else where, and also used it to do his own (arguably) less constitutional shit.

I find it rather convenient that your only now talking about "But you need to think of what the precedent it sets" when the Republican Party started it. And now suddenly, when playing by the same rules they've (Republican Party) set, you whine.

 

[Hanafuda]

"The Department of Education has tackled so much student debt already because Congress gave it a number of tools to do so. One of those tools is the Heroes Act, passed in the wake of 9/11. This law gives the secretary of education authority to “waive or modify” any provision of the law applicable to student aid programs “in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.” (Emphasis mine.) The secretary may exercise this power to “ensure” that borrowers “are not placed in a worse position financially” in relation to their loans because they were “affected” by the emergency. A “national emergency” is defined as any national emergency declared by the president. The ongoing COVID-19 pandemic surely qualifies, since Donald Trump declared it a national emergency and Biden has extended that declaration."

Trump also used the same deceleration, to appropriate funds else where, and also used it to do his own (arguably) less constitutional shit.

I find it rather convenient that your only now talking about "But you need to think of what the precedent it sets" when the Republican Party started it. And now suddenly, when playing by the same rules they've (Republican Party) set, you whine.

I assume that's how they froze repayments, so borrowers would not be "placed in a worse position financially." Nobody has had to pay on those loans for over two and a half years now. Your truly included. And I'm not whining ... I signed up for it (the loan forgiveness). I'd have been a fool not to. But I also saw it for the 'bread and circuses' gimmick for the midterms that it was, and nothing about this surprises me at all. Like I asked above ... if the Federal government was so concerned about students being saddled with loans, why are they still issuing them? My daughter's a freshman and sure enough, got Federal student loans to help pay. Shouldn't it have been a grant, not a loan, if they were really sincere about this?

 

[TraderPatTX]

While it's true that you have it easier to find a job if you study technical stuff (like in most engineering careers) humanities are often required in big companies to ensure a good discourse analyzis/society studies that are needed to take decisions.

Those jobs are not in high demand. If a degree in the humanities was really worth $100k+, the salary would reflect that.

Overall, gender studies are required in the school/college field, so a lot of professionals go for that route. Big companies are always searching for people with studies related to humanities too, and while it's hard to land a job, the payment is good enough or at least over the minimum salary.

Obviously not if humanities graduates can't earn enough to pay back their loans.

I also agree that people shouldn't pay to study many topics, and a lot of degrees in humanities should be shortened to less years, but this matter also has an economic/politic reason to not be applied (supersaturation of people with degrees for example) so you're right about that.

Law of supply and demand. I'm so glad somebody here gets it.

Also, even though you can learn a lot of stuff in the internet, that doesn't mean big companies will hire you. This is an stupid reality but if you have a degree you'll get A LOT more interviews compared to someone that only has knowledge, experience in some field or even studied the same career but in a "worse" university than you. The world of workforce is super discriminatory in this regard.

Not really. If you know a trade, you can get hired. I'm a network engineer. I've gotten jobs with and without a degree based on experience.

Contacts play a huge role too. I've met a lot of engineers that can't land a job and people with a Humanities degree who land a job inmediatly after getting out of college, just because his/her "uncle" had a company with a free vacant in an specific area, which not necessarily needs to be related to the degree.

You just proved having a degree is not the be all end all.

To be honest, nepotism is a bigger problem compared to where/what to study IMO

In my almost 30 year career, I've only run into nepotism maybe a few times. People need to realize that not every job they apply to is meant for them. I've been turned down numerous times and I never whined about it. This is what happens when the "Everybody Gets a Trophy" generation go out into the workforce. Get over it and move on.

Thank you for a very reasoned response. I enjoyed actually reading it and responding to it.

 

[CommanderCool]

In my almost 30 year career

everything makes so much fucking sense now

 

[TraderPatTX]

everything makes so much fucking sense now

Apparently not enough sense for you to present a reasoned argument or even a coherent comment.

Maybe you'd like to delve into the shitting habits of this judge? That seems to be more your speed.

 

[Jayro]

The government just needs to step in, and strongarm colleges to lower their tuition by about 95%. You'd be shocked to find out how much of your student loan money just goes to line their pockets. And with most schooling transitioning to online work courses, the high cost of digital college books is absolutely 100% a scam designed to make you go broke.

 

[TraderPatTX]

The government just needs to step in, and strongarm colleges to lower their tuition by about 95%. You'd be shocked to find out how much of your student loan money just goes to line their pockets. And with most schooling transitioning to online work courses, the high cost of digital college books is absolutely 100% a scam designed to make you go broke.

I don't think the words government and strongarm should ever be used in a sentence together and presented as a solution. Comes across as a little fascist and authoritarian, even though I do agree with your general idea.

Universities are sitting on billions of dollars in tax free endowments. They should be the ones backing these loans for their services, not the taxpayer. Once they have skin in the game, they would immediate stop offering $120k degrees for $40k salary jobs.

I just don't understand why the left keeps wanting to protect universities when they don't even pay taxes. It's almost like they don't even believe the crap they say. Same can be said of the corporate media and Big Pharma who also do not pay taxes.

 

[Jayro]

I don't think the words government and strongarm should ever be used in a sentence together and presented as a solution. Comes across as a little fascist and authoritarian, even though I do agree with your general idea.

Universities are sitting on billions of dollars in tax free endowments. They should be the ones backing these loans for their services, not the taxpayer. Once they have skin in the game, they would immediate stop offering $120k degrees for $40k salary jobs.

I just don't understand why the left keeps wanting to protect universities when they don't even pay taxes. It's almost like they don't even believe the crap they say. Same can be said of the corporate media and Big Pharma who also do not pay taxes.

I don't believe in protecting universities at all, they're scam artists.

 

[CommanderCool]

Apparently not enough sense for you to present a reasoned argument or even a coherent comment.

Maybe you'd like to delve into the shitting habits of this judge? That seems to be more your speed.

it became so obvious to me in that single statement why you adamantly refused to talk about the shitting habits of old people. i get not wanting to reveal something about your demographic, old timer.

 

[FAST6191]

The government just needs to step in, and strongarm colleges to lower their tuition by about 95%. You'd be shocked to find out how much of your student loan money just goes to line their pockets. And with most schooling transitioning to online work courses, the high cost of digital college books is absolutely 100% a scam designed to make you go broke.

They don't need to strongarm colleges and universities (not generally a great look to interfere in the free market, even more so after China just killed private education as that invites some unpleasant comparisons). In fact they need to do even less than they already do and drop the amount they guarantee and possibly lessen the quite insane protections they have (though I can see a debate there). If a college is guaranteed to get back so much from them then they can price it right up to the line, and probably a bit more too (some will inevitably pay some back so you can assume a tiny bit of risk there). You can even watch the price rises fall in line with the limit rises of various things.
At that point they only accept those in that they can be sure will do well, the rich families (which were never troubled anyway) rather than anyone with a pulse that may fail out, be given a worthless bit of paper, skip those that might be served better by doing a less demanding field rather than cramming them ultimately through at a cost to them, drop prices to be more competitive...