Virginity..

[Goshogun1]

-At what age did you do it?

I was 18.

-Was that experience good/bad (good sex, bad sex?)

It was exciting, new, and overall good. More exited about losing my virginity than actually enjoying the actual act which was unfortunate. (like OMG I can't wait to tell the guys about this LOL)

-How do you feel about it, are you sorry for not waiting, for someone other/better/more special?

I really wish I had waited, because I found out early that people could use sex against you. Right after I found out she was a complete drug addled nut-case. She tried to sleep with all my friends, and make me jealous. Then I found out who she had been with, and it made me feel...dirty. So yeah, I wish I could have waited for someone else.

Personally, I don't think someone's virginity has to be any of their friends business. Peoples peers make too much of a big deal about someone being a virgin or not. Comments like, "What are you gay?", and "What's wrong with you?" turn virginity into something horrible that should be kept secret, when it shouldn't be. It almost turns into a contest, and if you can't keep up you aren't a "real man". I am glad I have gone beyond that, and pretty much keep my relationships separate from what my peers think. Because in the end its about pleasing me and not satisfying the nosy curiosity of others.

 

[Maktub]

Toni, with all the due respect and about Taza's ideas:

I had sex some time before I was 5 (believe it or not, I'm sorry). I enjoyed it. I kept having sex after that (with several other girls). It was consented by us both and we were about the same age (girls were always older than me in no more than 1 year). No one encouraged us to do so, though.

I can say I don't regret it. I am very happy I had the chance to be far more experienced than any person my age nowadays is/will ever be. No one was hurted in any way and it made me have a different perspective about sex, which is always useful.

Luckily enough, I consider myself a respecting person and I understand my situation is not any normal thing, but I belive it could help some other people to see things differently, so that's why I wanted to share it with you.

Humans have never been too good in measuring life with laws (and will never be, that goes with nature).

Edit: Ah, and my mother gave me condoms at the age of ~10, told me to always be very careful and explained me about those things whenever I wanted to know. I never had any kind of problem related to girls getting pregnang or thinking they would and have always been an anchor when it came to pragmatical information for my friends. I don't know how is someone more prone to get a girl pregnant when being told what condoms are for, than someone who knows nothing about it or scarcely anything (that'd be even more dangerous).

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Toni, with all the due respect and about Taza's ideas:

I had sex some time before I was 5 (believe it or not, I'm sorry). I enjoyed it. I kept having sex after that (with several other girls). It was consented by us both and we were about the same age (girls were always older than me in no more than 1 year). No one encouraged us to do so, though.

I can say I don't regret it. I am very happy I had the chance to be far more experienced than any person my age nowadays is/will ever be. No one was hurted in any way and it made me have a different perspective about sex, which is always useful.

Luckily enough, I consider myself a respecting person and I understand my situation is not any normal thing, but I belive it could help some other people to see things differently, so that's why I wanted to share it with you.

Humans have never been too good in measuring life with laws (and will never be, that goes with nature).

This is unique experience, and I respect it totally, I actually believe you 100% (from all your posts here and in Girls vs. guys thread)..
My opinion is this:
I don't think that any parent (if normal) would approve that, and although from guys perspective, that could mean experience etc.
Imagine if a young girl at age 5 is having sex with 18+ years old (I mean, you always had older female partner)..That girl at the age of 5 probably won't and CAN'T know if sex is normal, what it is, and if it's just a game or whatever..
Again, there are situations where kids will know very early what is it all about, but this talk fits under child abusing!

I can be openminded, and I believe i am actually open minded person, but in my opinion sex under age of 14 is just wrong, and inappropriate..I don't think that kids can be physically and mentally developed enough to make decision of such importance at that age..I'm not saying that there can't be exceptions, but we're not talking about exceptions here, we're talking about standard overall, in the world!

 

[golden]

Replies in bold:

You wouldn't get the axes/guns reference, only someone with both knowledge of my home area and a passing knowledge of the NRA would. Maybe you do once you've learned everything you will.

Ohh empty threat. Scary.


I'm not exactly *wanting* kids to have sex at 12, but I'm not exactly hell-bent on stopping them if they want to either.

You're completely fine with kids having sex at that age. It really doesn't matter if you have the urge to get them to do it or not. Same concept for this discussion.

And you don't seem to grasp that *some kids do anyway* and that sex isn't a huge life-changing decision. It's normal and a part of life and as far as my knowledge goes the age you do it in doesn't seem to matter that much, at least given you've already entered puberty and it's consensual.

Oh ok, so just because people do it means it's ok? Look, it looks like you haven't had good parenting whatsoever in your life and everything shows that by the way your values are. Sex itself isn't a life changing decision but the mental aspect that comes with it is. See, if you teach your kids something wrong and they adopt that value then they are going to teach it to their kids and posterity to come and that's horrible because just because of your/someone's dumbass mistake/belief future generations will be affected because you were to stupid to realize what is wrong with your belief system.

13, 16, 19, 21? Well, maybe the 21 is a bit bad, and being a virgin at 24 is certainly traumatic, but the other ones, don't think so.

16 should be the minimum borderline.

And why would it be horribly traumatic, given the body is more or less ready at the age between 11 and 15, depending on the individual. Not fully developed to adult form, no, but ready for sex. All trauma attached is merely social, and eventually, social trauma is about hard to come by as sand in Sahara.

Apparently you can't grasp things beyond your basic understanding which is a shame. No, not all "trauma" attached to it is social and I wouldn't go as far as to say it is even trauma rather psychological changes in the brain that arise from permitting such freedoms like having sex at such a young age.

EDIT: And oh, if you do keep your kid from having sex at 12 when he/she really wants to, whatever method you use that's more reliable than trusting her, it's bound to be more harmful than the sex would be.

You obviously haven't had good parents and have no idea to parent as a result because if you did you would know how retarded that statement is. If you can't figure out a way to parent without being harmful to your child you shouldn't be having kids.

 

[Taza]

Threat? What threat?

Obviously you don't get the reference. You might in the future, yes, as a result of bad things befalling you. I can't see how that's a threat though. You probably won't get it unless some bad things befall you... not a threat.

I am fine with kids of that age having sex. Me not having any kind of preference is *huge* for this discussion. Not having a preference is one thing, wanting them to is probably illegal.

Are you familiar with the old concept of "if it bleeds it can breed"? Y'know, that isn't a new thought. It's one very old. United States age of consent laws are very much an United States thing, given that the minimum age of consent both in it's northern and southern neighbors is 12.

It ranges between 13-16 in Europe, too. 16 being the minimum borderline... hasn't got even close to universal support. This also relates to the point of trauma - apparently it isn't believed in in a whole lot of countries, civilized, western countries.

And is there a good parenting way to force your child into not doing something? I sincerely doubt it. If the kid wants, he either can find a way or you're a very horrible parent who should have your children taken away from you.

 

[Mangofett]

This argument won't go anywhere... Taza believes his opinion is right and that sex is ok at that age, and golden obviously doesn't. It will escalate to a flame war with the next reply by either side

 

[science]

I just read about some guy having sex at five and enjoying it.

I'm going to stick waaaay clear of this thread.

 

[Problematique]

I'm young.
Prolly to young to be reading this.
Let's just say im going to high school.
I'm self conscious.
I'm to big of a pussy to even ask a girl out...
What if she didn't like me.
It happened to me once..
It went around like a virus.
Everyone knew.
People say its easy to get a GF in high school.
Put my low self esteem results in being a pussy.
meaning don't ask around.
my last relationship(2nd one)
ended BAD BAD BAD.
Ill tell you what happened.
I'm the nerdy kid you could say I've got 5-10 friends so one day (around the end of year 5)i was walking to the school library to meat up with some guys
when this chick just walked up and asked me out my lucks like dog shit i didn't belive it a 1st.
So we had it good for about 5 months until
i got some werid messages from here friend like sort of saying DUDE YOUR DUMPED in a nice way,
anyway i ring her up and she just told me shes going to high school and will be busy so your dumped with everything.
I cryed on the phone
I never told anyone this
I never talked to her again
and don't plan to

i worried ill never get that right person

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Threat? What threat?

Obviously you don't get the reference. You might in the future, yes, as a result of bad things befalling you. I can't see how that's a threat though. You probably won't get it unless some bad things befall you... not a threat.

I am fine with kids of that age having sex. Me not having any kind of preference is *huge* for this discussion. Not having a preference is one thing, wanting them to is probably illegal.

Are you familiar with the old concept of "if it bleeds it can breed"? Y'know, that isn't a new thought. It's one very old. United States age of consent laws are very much an United States thing, given that the minimum age of consent both in it's northern and southern neighbors is 12.

It ranges between 13-16 in Europe, too. 16 being the minimum borderline... hasn't got even close to universal support. This also relates to the point of trauma - apparently it isn't believed in in a whole lot of countries, civilized, western countries.

And is there a good parenting way to force your child into not doing something? I sincerely doubt it. If the kid wants, he either can find a way or you're a very horrible parent who should have your children taken away from you.

One question tho, if your kid wants to have drugs at age of 12 (or older, doesn't matter), will you stop him/her or will you encourage him/her or what will you do..

Because if you really forbid him/her to do it, by your own words, he'll find away around and do it anyways!! Because as a parent, you shouldn't forbid them anything, and if they are forbidden, they'll do it anyways!
Let's face it, 60%-80% kids are curious about drugs!!

 

[Eternal Myst]

This topic is very interesting.

I would blame the environment/atmosphere that the 13yr kid lives in.

 

[NeSchn]

I'm young.
Prolly to young to be reading this.
Let's just say im going to high school.
I'm self conscious.
I'm to big of a pussy to even ask a girl out...
What if she didn't like me.
It happened to me once..
It went around like a virus.
Everyone knew.
People say its easy to get a GF in high school.
Put my low self esteem results in being a pussy.
meaning don't ask around.
my last relationship(2nd one)
ended BAD BAD BAD.
Ill tell you what happened.
I'm the nerdy kid you could say I've got 5-10 friends so one day (around the end of year 5)i was walking to the school library to meat up with some guys
when this chick just walked up and asked me out my lucks like dog shit i didn't belive it a 1st.
So we had it good for about 5 months until
i got some werid messages from here friend like sort of saying DUDE YOUR DUMPED in a nice way,
anyway i ring her up and she just told me shes going to high school and will be busy so your dumped with everything.
I cryed on the phone
I never told anyone this
I never talked to her again
and don't plan to

i worried ill never get that right person

There is always someone out there for everyone. You just need to find it.
Hey be happy you at least had two girlfriends, I can't even get one. I should post sometime about how many times I tried and got fucked over. So, when that happens you just go onto the next.

 

[miruki]

Gosh, I need to add a few things, as a mother I feel like I should.


First of all, I agree to Taza and Toni, trying to keep your children out of harm by forbidding stuff is not always the best option. I know from myself how that can have the complete opposite effect. What's important is trust, you need your children to trust you so they'll talk with you about the stuff that's on their mind, may it be the urge to have sex or their curiousity about drugs or anything else.

My father always talked with me about stuff like drugs and it made me completely lose interest in taking anything awful. But just telling your children to never take drugs but not properly explaining to them which drugs have which effect and all and why they are so bad for their body and mind, which kid would listen to a parent like that?

Let me give you an example from my own family. My brother is 16 and he asked our mum if she'd buy him a Shisha (water pipe) from the amazon voucher I wanted to give him as a christmas/birthday present, but she said no, telling him it's not good for his health and she won't buy him one ever! So he called me and told me about it and so I said I'd buy him one, I agree to my mother when she says it's not the best thing for his health, but did she ever listen to him when he said he only smokes apple tobacco once or twice a month? He'd do it anyways, at his friend's place. And it's not like mum's not smoking her cigs everywhere in the flat anyways - which is even worse for his health.

So, now I'll get him one for his birthday, what I gain from that is his trust and honesty - he'll tell me how often he uses it and he'd also tell me if he ever gets the urge to try something else.

I really think it's important to listen to your children more, listen to what they really have to say instead of just saying "No!" and "Go too your room and be quiet!" - there should be a friendship between parents and children and both need to be able to accept compromises. You cannot simply control your child, but you can try and nudge them a little to the right direction. That's how I think.

And you need to educate your child about the things that could harm it, that also includes sex.

I forgot the other things I wanted to say. :>

 

[Maktub]

Well, Toni, I don't think it right to compare sex and drugs unless there is risk of pregnancy/STD. Those can be easily prevented with condoms (most of them) and not going around screwing anything that moves

. However, you did make a point (in my opinion) when stating that children shouldn't be left entirely on their own. They need a guidance up to a certain maturity (not age, that's something arbitrary and that depends 100% on the individual) and it is (sadly) true that in most cases a great deal of people don't get to fully understand sex when teenagers (some don't even understand it as adults, to be honest).

Linki is probably right too about the argument nearly-everyone vs. Taza is going to become a flame war. I'd recommend Taza to take it easier, as he has exposed his opinion and people willing to hear it, have done already (and even those who disagree will probably have it in count and will have probably changed their minds accordingly, at least a little).

Also, I don't agree on young people (not sexually mature from a physical point of view) having sex with older people (teens and up). Be it girls, or boys. It's just something the oldest one shouldn't approve and not because of morals or laws, but just because the younger one could be in a disadvantaged position (meaning the older one should let the younger one get to know as much about life and sex as he/she knows).

@Golden: why 16? where is it stated that that's the best age for everyone? why not 18 or 13? and most importantly - why is it that it should be that age? If your criteria are just "because I believe so that way", then I'm sorry to say Taza (or anyone else who bothers on expanding their ideas and making them understandable for the other members) has got way more than a point than you.

@science: ok?

Edit: I think my parents' (my mother's, mainly) view on the subject has been very much like miruki's. Mostly based on treating children as adults learning rather than "to be adults". I guess I'm too "radical" when expressing myself sometimes, but that's just what I meant with my "ideal" way to raise up children.

 

[Taza]

I never disagreed with guidance. In fact, I put forward a defense for education and trust, and letting the child make his or her own decisions.

Because forcing a child to do something or not do something breeds mistrust and hatred, and if you can't rationally defend your point, what are you doing trying to enforce that point in the first place?

 

[Issac]

Do you know the age of consent in Japan?

What about Sweden?

Heck, in the case of young teens - Germany and Canada with their exceptions?

EDIT: Clarifying. The age of consent in Canada is 12 as long as the partner is no older than 14.

It's 15 years, in Sweden... for anyones interest

 

[Maktub]

I never disagreed with guidance. In fact, I put forward a defense for education and trust, and letting the child make his or her own decisions.

Because forcing a child to do something or not do something breeds mistrust and hatred, and if you can't rationally defend your point, what are you doing trying to enforce that point in the first place?

Well, people usually stick to what they feel is right and are contempt with that. They don't usually bother going any further and finding out why they have those values. Their idea of guidance is simply different, but I think it mainly leads to the so-called "generational gap" and having the former "kid" beginning from scratch to find a new set of values that suits them better.

edit: 13 y/o in Spain.

 

[Toni Plutonij]

I wasn't trying to compare drugs and sex! I was trying to put down Tazas argument that "kids should be allowed to do what they want when they want because they'll do it with or without your approval so better give it to him"!

To point out, I don't think that Taza has wrong views, maybe he stated few things in a wrong way, and so did I..However, I understand what he means and I agree..

Funny how thing work, because I'm a child of two people that smoke since my birth! I never tried to smoke in my life, I have been in conflict with my parents for a long time, and it was really nasty, I was kicked out/ran away at age of 17, got back soon..After that things got a bit easier..
I know that you can't just forbid something to your child, you have to point your kids in right direction, but you can't always be a friend, parenting must come first!
Everybody has some unique experience in their life, and they form their opinions on that!

Everyone that was involved in this discussion has a point, and is right, some of our views may conflict, but all of us talk about the best way to raise children..

Mine parents found out I'm having sex in kinda nasty way..When I was out of home, while messing around my room, my mom found diary that my girlfriend wrote..She wrote everything that was happening in our lives, and she wrote it very graphically..
But my parents never made a big deal out of it, I actually never had any conversation about it with them..

 

[Calafas]

I think Toni's right here, everybody has different, and everybody has different thoughts on parenting, influenced by their own experiences with their parents! All these views are right, and if everybody was bought up the same, what a boring place the world would be! So I think nobody can be *wrong* in parenting, you do what your heart tells you is best for your children, and as long as you love your children, your method of bringing them up matters not so much.

Edit : To keep this topic on track, I think my parents first new i was having sex when they walked in on me and my girlfriend in bed. :S It was very embarassing, but they told me to just be safe, and talked to me about consequencews and that (which although learned about at school, it seems different coming from parents), and now they are cool with it :]

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Edit : To keep this topic on track, I think my parents first new i was having sex when they walked in on me and my girlfriend in bed. :S It was very embarassing, but they told me to just be safe, and talked to me about consequencews and that (which although learned about at school, it seems different coming from parents), and now they are cool with it :]

Thanks

And I had a similar episode in my life..
Girl was at my place and we were messing around, and there was a power blackout, it was dark, and I have undressed her, and my mom comes in to bring a candle so we would have some light..
Crazies part was that we haven't even stopped, she just left the candle and got out of the room....
However, even tho it was a weird moment, I wasn't embarassed at all..Now when I think about it, it was just wrong, but then I didn't cared about it..I was young!

 

[Calafas]

Yea, my mum once walk in on similar situation, and starts up conversation with my girlfriend, it was kind of strange, ando nly the other day my sister came in when we were doing it and took some of my money, but i couldnt get up to stop her >.