Homebrew Why are hackers so against piracy?

[xerosagas]

Theres also the 'I pirate to get a glimpse, if I like I'll buy' how many people realy do this, some do, but I doubt its many, they've already got the game, why delete it and go out and buy it if you've already got it? I doubt many people really do this.

I do this, depending on the game I'll either buy it for myself if it has online or for someone else if it doesn't. Sometimes both. For example I initially pirated the Ace Attorney games, bought 5 and vs. Layton when they came out, and bought two copies of the trilogy on 3DS and gifted one.

 

[dubbz82]

For whatever it's worth, of the people that do pirate that I know myself, the vast majority of them have huge huge steam libraries, and own far more games than other people...

 

[Subtle Demise]

If it were for fear of legal action don't you think that deank (real name is obviously Dean K. and you could probably find out quite a bit about this person from a few minutes on Google), the creator of a PS3 homebrew that allows unrestricted piracy of PS3, PS2, PSX, and a multitude of older consoles' games would have been sued and fined by now? Oh, he hasn't? That's because Sony, Nintendo and their ilk have no legal standing in such a case, especially when they cross international borders.

 

[dubbz82]

If it were for fear of legal action don't you think that deank (real name is obviously Dean K. and you could probably find out quite a bit about this person from a few minutes on Google), the creator of a PS3 homebrew that allows unrestricted piracy of PS3, PS2, PSX, and a multitude of older consoles' games would have been sued and fined by now? Oh, he hasn't? That's because Sony, Nintendo and their ilk have no legal standing in such a case, especially when they cross international borders.

This is largely because writing emulators in and of itself has been proven legal. As far as actually running ps3 games on a ps3 console, it's considerably more a grey area...

 

[Subtle Demise]

This is largely becpoint still ause writing emulators in and of itself has been proven legal. As far as actually running ps3 games on a ps3 console, it's considerably more a grey area...

Well my point still stands, how is running backup 3ds games on a 3ds any different?

 

[dubbz82]

it pretty much isn't. That being said, I can't fault the devs if for whatever reason they opt not to add support for running roms. It's certainly their work, and they can certainly do whatever they so choose with it. That's not to say that it may not potentially be holding the homebrew scene back some (homebrew in many cases is loaded in very similar, or even an identical manner to commercial games) by not enabling it, but it's their choice. The thing that bothers me the most, is actively enabling artificial DRM on rom/iso loading (for example, Devolution), but that's another argument for another day.

EDIT: Also as a side note, I find it to be very hypocritical if they allow emulators to be ran and not native roms, as next to no one actually uses most emulators out there completely legally. Either support piracy (new consoles, old consoles, whole works) or don't (somehow figure out a way to disallow emulators from being loaded). Don't half ass it and attempt to justify it because it's "only enabling homebrew"

 

[shinyquagsire23]

Exactly, those hackers you are talking about are paid by flashcarts companies, they are not among those who are "against piracy" off course since it's their job. They would not spend their free time working on software exploits with nothing to gain but useless public recognition, that makes no sense.

Really, there is no "hypocrisy", just different people with different interests and motivations.

I once spent 8 hours making a piece of GBA homebrew which would rickroll people. I was not paid nor endorsed by Rick Astley. I did it because I was bored and curious if it was possible. But in all seriousness, some people like to do this because reverse engineering is just their passion. Plus it helps advance emulator development and they can benefit from the fruits of their labors and all that stuff. I highly doubt any of them are actually paid by any flash cart companies, otherwise they'd be putting on a hell of an act just to get paid. And if they were getting paid by flash cart companies, why would they leave all that lovely documentation on 3dbrew for other companies to use?

 

[ewin00]

its nothing wrong for that hackers on this case to allow piracy to the old 3ds that i think nintendo will not be focused on the old system with like gameless old 3ds since the new 3ds has its own exclusive. well idk tho just lets WAIT

 

[flipy]

Money.
And also... more money.

 

[OncRN]

What about those that just want a challenge to overcome- a way to test their skills, to prove their abilities? Or others, who want to push the envelope in anyway they can? This mindset is really beneficial, because of all else that results from it. So many incredible discoveries and achievements all started with "I wonder if you can...?" or "Is there a way to...?" As far as their rejection of piracy - well the first issue I would think is the potential legal liability. But some probably have legitimate moral objections as well. They might be concerned about what others will do with their work. Regardless, I appreciate their efforts.

 

[gamesquest1]

yeah even the "elitist" hackers who don't release any of their private work actually still do a lot in terms of documentation, even though I'm a bit of an idiot and don't know how to code, 3Dbrew is a invaluable resource of information which helps anyone looking to work on the 3DS has something to go on, its a bit stupid to assume these people are holding back as they are part of gateway....think about it, all the info they share on 3Dbrew despite not being anything "usable" still greatly reduces the amount of work needed for someone looking to release, im pretty sure all if not the large majority of stuff released so far for the 3DS have used 3Dbrew as a reference point

any of the gateway dev's simply wouldn't share anything at all, they wouldn't document exploit for other people to then use for their own projects, i see the "elitist" dev's as more of a teacher figure for the community, in the same sense as a teacher wouldn't do your work for you, but they give you everything you need to do it yourself

 

[Dazzozo]

yeah even the "elitist" hackers who don't release any of their private work actually still do a lot in terms of documentation, even though I'm a bit of an idiot and don't know how to code, 3Dbrew is a invaluable resource of information which helps anyone looking to work on the 3DS has something to go on, its a bit stupid to assume these people are holding back as they are part of gateway....think about it, all the info they share on 3Dbrew despite not being anything "usable" still greatly reduces the amount of work needed for someone looking to release, im pretty sure all if not the large majority of stuff released so far for the 3DS have used 3Dbrew as a reference point

any of the gateway dev's simply wouldn't share anything at all, they wouldn't document exploit for other people to then use for their own projects, i see the "elitist" dev's as more of a teacher figure for the community, in the same sense as a teacher wouldn't do your work for you, but they give you everything you need to do it yourself

3dbrew is amazing.

 

[Gruntzer]

it is about morals. piracy is theft.

 

[the_randomizer]

it is about morals. piracy is theft.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/piracy-common-myths.344858/

Piracy is theft.
This is by far the most common myth. Piracy is not theft because it does not cause any direct damage or loss to the other party (in fact, whether there's another party at all is sometimes up for debate). Theft, on the other hand, is a criminal act because in committing an act of theft, you deprive somebody of something. If I go and take an old lady's purse, then due to my actions the old lady has been caused a loss, her purse. However, when pirating, nobody loses anything. The pirater gains a copy of some digital item, while the person/entity who originally created that item is completely unaffected by the act.

Piracy is the illegal distribution of copied digital goods, the original data is still there and hasn't been deprived, so therefore, it's not theft. I wish people stopped believe that piracy and theft are the same thing, they're not. Hackers oppose it for various reasons, some hate piracy, some do it just because.

 

[MrJason005]

Oh I have no clue

 

[Canadacdn]

It all comes down to the developers' own personal sense of morality in these matters. However, I think it's naive for many who strive to enable homebrew support on game systems like the 3DS to be so vocally against piracy, as most often one of the primary goals of their work is enabling the use of emulators. A lot of people here don't seem to think emulating old systems is as "bad" as loading .3DS files, but they're both forms of piracy equally as severe in the eyes of Nintendo. If anyone thinks that preventing one form of piracy while enabling another is somehow more noble, they are fooling themselves.

 

[the_randomizer]

It all comes down to the developers' own personal sense of morality in these matters. However, I think it's naive for many who strive to enable homebrew support on game systems like the 3DS to be so vocally against piracy, as most often one of the primary goals of their work is enabling the use of emulators. A lot of people here don't seem to think emulating old systems is as "bad" as loading .3DS files, but they're both forms of piracy equally as severe in the eyes of Nintendo. If anyone thinks that preventing one form of piracy while enabling another is somehow more noble, they are fooling themselves.

I think it's even more hilarious when companies and programmers get all uppity when games that no longer generate revenue/have been out of print for nearly two decades, are pirated, and somehow is a detriment. No production of product, no sales, no loss in revenue.

 

[StriderVM]

Sometimes they do have an excuse, like Virtual Console.

Remember that piracy can also be an availability rather than a cost problem.

But what some companies do to measure their losses due to piracy are totally dumb. They basically just read the amount of downloads multiplied by retail price. That's dumb as well.

 

[MrJason005]

They think they can push us around because they're in control.

Spoiler

 

[Chelsea_Fantasy]

FEAR, thats the word.
In my case it is for other reasons (check rxtools thread page 103), but developers have fear of dont find any new exploit to have fun with. The most powerful actual exploits (beside Ninjhax) where found by the Gateway TEAM (they have many hidden hacks since 2012, check OOT save for details) and they have fear of dont be able to find any new exploits. In other words "they are ***** in their pants"
but anyway, thats good for now (check my opinion of why at rxtools thread page 103)