Did they kill Kingdom Hearts with making too many new games?
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Ventus used to work under Master Xehanort, the many antagonist of the series, after not being able to complete an assigned task, Xehanort removed the darkness from him, this became Vanitas, leaving Ventus pretty much pure light... Anyway by the end of the BBS fiasco his heart finds its way to Sora's after being scraped up pretty badly... So Sora the main protagonist of the series has Ventus's heart with him, this somehow leads his Nobody to look like Ventus... Nobody's are the shell that is created after a being loses its heart, Nobody's have no hearts and no emotions...ShadowSoldier said:
It's in there still, it just needs to be found and re-opened I believe...Xale said:
I think people are finding the story bad because it may be complicated, and sometimes people just miss out on things...
jackdanielchan said:
THat's just complicatingly stupid. Sora goes from just being one of few legendary keyblade weilders, to being one because he sucked in the evil heart of some guy who got made pure from the main bad guy or some crap, it's stupid.
No no, the good heart of Ventus is in Sora. I can't remember what happened to Vanitas, but I'm going to spoil everything, but the game has been out for a few months, so eh, Vantias, the darkness ripped from Ventus, looks like Sora.
Now that needs an explanation.
Now that needs an explanation.
Quit your complaining and play the game, dammit. Our summaries do no justice to the storytelling.Sylar1 said:
Kind of a flawed explanation of what happened to Ven and why he looks like Roxas. It's unfortunate that a lot of details are hidden from players until future games. The only way to find these details sooner is by reading the "ultimania interviews" from Nomura which are published after every KH game comes out. Real explanation below (HUGE SPOILERS FOR BBS's ENDING AND SUCH, LONG POST AHEAD)-
It's a mystery to me why i am able to understand the series. It's rewarding when you can. And in all honestly, it flows better in the game than the way i explain it. Person above is 100% right, our way of explaining it does no justice, no matter how accurate it is. There is one thing that should be simple enough to understand- the way hearts connect and work in general has an effect on the person's appearance. Makes some sense too, it's a cool visual representation on how a character takes on physical traits when they have a part of someone else inside them.
Ventus is an original character, he is his own person and wasn't cloned from anyone. Full home grown person. Master Xehanort was trying to train him in order to draw the darkness out of his heart. His original intention is to use Ven's body as a new vessel (this is what he ends up doing to Terra). But Ven proved to be too weak, his darkness wasn't strong enough. So Master Xehanort forces the darkness out of Ven's heart, thereby creating Vanitas (an embodiment of pure evil and darkness).
Ven is rendered comatose from this though, his heart was ripped apart and he was too weak to function without it intact. Master Xehanort took Ven's body back to Destiny Islands (where MX grew up btw, yoink). As Ven lay dying, a newly born heart manages to make contact with Ven's heart and offers to connect to it in order to repair it. That heart ends up being Sora's as we discover at the end. As hearts connect in the series, they tend to leave an imprint of sorts to those they connect to, the most obvious being characters sharing similar physical traits. As a result of Ven and Sora's hearts connecting, Vanitas ends up taking on the appearance of Sora with only slight differences. Their connection may also explain why Sora ends up looking somewhat like Ven/Roxas later in his life.
Fast forward to the ending of Ven's story. He clashes with Vanitas. When opposing forces of pure light (Ven) and pure darkness (Vanitas) clash, they can then merge and create a might weapon called the X blade. Vanitas takes control of Ven and uses the X blade to try and kill Aqua. Ven's heart keeps fighting with Vanitas though. The issue with this is that if he destroys the x blade, he destroys part of his heart (it was created from his and Vanitas' heart), which will once again render him comatose. He does so anyways though knowingly, in order to save his friends. Vanitas is defeated and merges back into Ven's heart and Ven enters a deep sleep.
In his sleep Ven's heart recalls the contact he made years ago with the newborn Sora's heart. They manage to meet again as they did before. Ven asks Sora if his heart can remain with him for the time being, until he can heal properly. Sora agrees.
Ven's sleeping body in the meantime, was taken by Aqua to their old home. Her master being dead and needing a place to keep Ven safe from people who would harm him, transforms their home into what is now Castle Oblivion. She places him in a room only she can find and open. He's still in that room, sleeping on a throne. With time, Ven's heart will heal, at which time someone will need to bring his heart back to his body and he can awaken.
It should be noted that the whole reason that organization 13 occupied Castle Oblivion in COM was because of Xemnas' orders that they are to look for the "Room of Awakening", the place where Ven is sleeping. Why he wants to find Ven is unknown. But knowing his experiments in Days, he likely wishes to use Ven's body to create keyblade soldiers to do his bidding...
Ok, as for Roxas. Ven's heart has been sleeping inside Sora for 10 years. Yet near the end of KH1, Kairi's heart has also taken refuge inside Sora. Sora stabs himself in the chest with a keyblade in order to release Kairi and return her heart to her body. He ends up releasing his heart too however. The result ends up creating a heartless (which you've seen, doesn't last long before Kairi restores Sora's heart). However, when a heartless is made, a nobody is also made from the discarded body. Roxas is the result.
Roxas is unique for many reasons, one being his odd appearance. Most nobodies are almost 100% identical to their original selves (meaning he should look like Sora since it is Sora's body). Roxas looks totally different from Sora though. He also has the unique ability to wield a keyblade, which is said to require a heart to do. And even furthering this, he feels emotions, which is something that normal nobodies cannot feel since they lack a heart. Inside his body, Roxas has Ven's heart. But due to the fact that the heart is still dormant, none of Ven's memories are available to Roxas. Only traces of Ven are there, like appearance. It was even explained that the keyblade Roxas was using throughout most his life was Sora's. Their connection made this possible. The one used by Sora in COM was a replica, constructed of memories. Sora lost his original when he entered the castle, which was actually when Roxas first started using it.
His ability to wield two keyblades is also explained. The general rule is one keyblade per worthy heart. He eventually manages to tap into the power of both Sora and Ven's hearts through a very painful emotional event (Xion). Due to this event, it partially awakens Ven's heart and Roxas' willpower manages to call Ven's keyblade to him. When Roxas merges back with Sora, Sora also obtains the ability to wield two keyblade in the form of drives, which let him temporarily awaken Ven's heart to gain more power.
In terms of character, Roxas a mix of both Sora and Ven with a personality of his own. He has Sora's body, Ven's heart (along with his connection to Sora), and his own memories.
Ven is rendered comatose from this though, his heart was ripped apart and he was too weak to function without it intact. Master Xehanort took Ven's body back to Destiny Islands (where MX grew up btw, yoink). As Ven lay dying, a newly born heart manages to make contact with Ven's heart and offers to connect to it in order to repair it. That heart ends up being Sora's as we discover at the end. As hearts connect in the series, they tend to leave an imprint of sorts to those they connect to, the most obvious being characters sharing similar physical traits. As a result of Ven and Sora's hearts connecting, Vanitas ends up taking on the appearance of Sora with only slight differences. Their connection may also explain why Sora ends up looking somewhat like Ven/Roxas later in his life.
Fast forward to the ending of Ven's story. He clashes with Vanitas. When opposing forces of pure light (Ven) and pure darkness (Vanitas) clash, they can then merge and create a might weapon called the X blade. Vanitas takes control of Ven and uses the X blade to try and kill Aqua. Ven's heart keeps fighting with Vanitas though. The issue with this is that if he destroys the x blade, he destroys part of his heart (it was created from his and Vanitas' heart), which will once again render him comatose. He does so anyways though knowingly, in order to save his friends. Vanitas is defeated and merges back into Ven's heart and Ven enters a deep sleep.
In his sleep Ven's heart recalls the contact he made years ago with the newborn Sora's heart. They manage to meet again as they did before. Ven asks Sora if his heart can remain with him for the time being, until he can heal properly. Sora agrees.
Ven's sleeping body in the meantime, was taken by Aqua to their old home. Her master being dead and needing a place to keep Ven safe from people who would harm him, transforms their home into what is now Castle Oblivion. She places him in a room only she can find and open. He's still in that room, sleeping on a throne. With time, Ven's heart will heal, at which time someone will need to bring his heart back to his body and he can awaken.
It should be noted that the whole reason that organization 13 occupied Castle Oblivion in COM was because of Xemnas' orders that they are to look for the "Room of Awakening", the place where Ven is sleeping. Why he wants to find Ven is unknown. But knowing his experiments in Days, he likely wishes to use Ven's body to create keyblade soldiers to do his bidding...
Ok, as for Roxas. Ven's heart has been sleeping inside Sora for 10 years. Yet near the end of KH1, Kairi's heart has also taken refuge inside Sora. Sora stabs himself in the chest with a keyblade in order to release Kairi and return her heart to her body. He ends up releasing his heart too however. The result ends up creating a heartless (which you've seen, doesn't last long before Kairi restores Sora's heart). However, when a heartless is made, a nobody is also made from the discarded body. Roxas is the result.
Roxas is unique for many reasons, one being his odd appearance. Most nobodies are almost 100% identical to their original selves (meaning he should look like Sora since it is Sora's body). Roxas looks totally different from Sora though. He also has the unique ability to wield a keyblade, which is said to require a heart to do. And even furthering this, he feels emotions, which is something that normal nobodies cannot feel since they lack a heart. Inside his body, Roxas has Ven's heart. But due to the fact that the heart is still dormant, none of Ven's memories are available to Roxas. Only traces of Ven are there, like appearance. It was even explained that the keyblade Roxas was using throughout most his life was Sora's. Their connection made this possible. The one used by Sora in COM was a replica, constructed of memories. Sora lost his original when he entered the castle, which was actually when Roxas first started using it.
His ability to wield two keyblades is also explained. The general rule is one keyblade per worthy heart. He eventually manages to tap into the power of both Sora and Ven's hearts through a very painful emotional event (Xion). Due to this event, it partially awakens Ven's heart and Roxas' willpower manages to call Ven's keyblade to him. When Roxas merges back with Sora, Sora also obtains the ability to wield two keyblade in the form of drives, which let him temporarily awaken Ven's heart to gain more power.
In terms of character, Roxas a mix of both Sora and Ven with a personality of his own. He has Sora's body, Ven's heart (along with his connection to Sora), and his own memories.
It's a mystery to me why i am able to understand the series. It's rewarding when you can. And in all honestly, it flows better in the game than the way i explain it. Person above is 100% right, our way of explaining it does no justice, no matter how accurate it is. There is one thing that should be simple enough to understand- the way hearts connect and work in general has an effect on the person's appearance. Makes some sense too, it's a cool visual representation on how a character takes on physical traits when they have a part of someone else inside them.
TehSkull said:
Honestly, Suck it. I'm a huge Kingdom Hearts fan. But they really are just over complicating the story. It's getting ******** crazy. I just read and understood gran's post, it doesn't make the story and any of it any better. The story was so much Simplier when it was Sora is one of the legendary people who can Wield a keyblade, Roxas is his nobody and gets created when he gets his heart taken or whatever near the end of KH1.
Now we have crap with hearts being ripped out, repaired, becoming the MC that we all know. There really is no need to expand the story to this crazy crap. That's the bad thing with them making so many games in a series and connecting them, they create a huge web of stupid.
Wow... when you read that, and then look at the story of the first kingdom hearts... it almost makes you say "wtf?"
They seriously sound like two different games belonging in two different series -_-
They seriously sound like two different games belonging in two different series -_-
I don't really have the time to read through the thread but
Kingdom Hearts titles connect with each other. Each new title adds stuff to the story in some way, maybe even a way you don't notice at first.
I'll put the latest example which involves spoilers from KH3D/KH III (most probably from KH3D)
Well, I don't know if I made myself clear nor if I said everything I wanted but KH games aren't straightforward, nor they should be.
Kingdom Hearts titles connect with each other. Each new title adds stuff to the story in some way, maybe even a way you don't notice at first.
I'll put the latest example which involves spoilers from KH3D/KH III (most probably from KH3D)
Birth by Sleep.
This game was made for two reasons and an argueable third (which I'll state first)
First and argueable
• Fanboys wanting to know about the past and the previous Keyblade wielders
Self explanatory
Second
• Ventus, Terra and Aqua
Who is this "he" Xigbar refers to when talking to Sora in KH II?
Same with "the others" , also said by Xigbar
He is refering to Terra, Aqua and Ven (not bullshitting, Nomura said it himself)
Third and in my opinon now, the most important
• The introduction of the Mark of Mastery concept...
...which I believe is Kingdom Hearts 3D's story about.
Why? Because KH3D was confirmed to be linked directly with KH III and you play as both Riku and Sora.
And Re:Coded's secret cutscene said sora and Riku will be having the Mark of Mastery exam.
This game was made for two reasons and an argueable third (which I'll state first)
First and argueable
• Fanboys wanting to know about the past and the previous Keyblade wielders
Self explanatory
Second
• Ventus, Terra and Aqua
Who is this "he" Xigbar refers to when talking to Sora in KH II?
Same with "the others" , also said by Xigbar
He is refering to Terra, Aqua and Ven (not bullshitting, Nomura said it himself)
Third and in my opinon now, the most important
• The introduction of the Mark of Mastery concept...
...which I believe is Kingdom Hearts 3D's story about.
Why? Because KH3D was confirmed to be linked directly with KH III and you play as both Riku and Sora.
And Re:Coded's secret cutscene said sora and Riku will be having the Mark of Mastery exam.
Well, I don't know if I made myself clear nor if I said everything I wanted but KH games aren't straightforward, nor they should be.
I think Many Games companys kill there games with sequels and prequels. They really can't help themselves. :sigh:
If a game does really well, They have this over powering Urge to Make another game which drains the series of its purity. KH1 and KH2 being a perfect example of that.
When they make a sequel to a game there faced with the problem of "how to improve it" Which usually results in them adding more. Unnecessary and less important things.
Makes you wonder why they even bother putting in things that arent really needed. If it wasn't needed in the first game why is it needed in the second.
The improvements in battle systems in KH2 though was welcome to me, Although minor changes it seemed to run smother.
Square-Enix are known for there 'over doing' Storys though Just look at what there doing to Final Fantasy 7, With the whole Crisis Core, Advent children ect. They just dont know when to stop. That with Disney's Need to make money, its no surprise its happening.
If a game does really well, They have this over powering Urge to Make another game which drains the series of its purity. KH1 and KH2 being a perfect example of that.
When they make a sequel to a game there faced with the problem of "how to improve it" Which usually results in them adding more. Unnecessary and less important things.
Makes you wonder why they even bother putting in things that arent really needed. If it wasn't needed in the first game why is it needed in the second.
The improvements in battle systems in KH2 though was welcome to me, Although minor changes it seemed to run smother.
Square-Enix are known for there 'over doing' Storys though Just look at what there doing to Final Fantasy 7, With the whole Crisis Core, Advent children ect. They just dont know when to stop. That with Disney's Need to make money, its no surprise its happening.
To be totally fair, BBS is extremely important to the story and has some of the best payoff in answers i've seen any of the games provide. Especially in showing us the origins and fate of Xehanort. It connects to a lot of mysteries in the other games. And it's actually quite a fun game. Very little filler, almost every world has a purpose in the main plot. We also learned the specifics behind what it takes to become a keyblade wielder. And of course, the explanation about Ven.
And i must say, i'm a huge Vanitas fan. Not because of what he ends up looking like, but because his dialog and voice are really awesome. I will say no more besides the voice actor really showed some talent there. Might shock some people who have a certain disdain for a particular "happy carefree sappy" character in the series. I actually daresay that the voice actor is much more competent voicing a bad guy voice than, well...Ahem...
And i must say, i'm a huge Vanitas fan. Not because of what he ends up looking like, but because his dialog and voice are really awesome. I will say no more besides the voice actor really showed some talent there. Might shock some people who have a certain disdain for a particular "happy carefree sappy" character in the series. I actually daresay that the voice actor is much more competent voicing a bad guy voice than, well...Ahem...
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Vanitas is one of the coolest and badass characters in KH IMO.granville said:
I haven't actually played the game yet, but i have read up info and looked at a few videos, and his dialogue and personality are just awesome.
I ended up laughing the first time i heard his voice, because i knew his and "his" voice actors were the same, and went on a long winded thinking process where i imagined the reactions of people who hated "that" character.
I hated all the 'original' KH. Sora was/is just a terrible character, and i've always hated him.
I started liking the series when they changed up the main character (358 and BBS).
So if they keep it up, i'll keep playin'. If they switch back to Sora, i'll stop.
I started liking the series when they changed up the main character (358 and BBS).
So if they keep it up, i'll keep playin'. If they switch back to Sora, i'll stop.
I stopped playing the games after KH2. The part that they really screwed up on was making Sephiroth beatable in KH2. o.o
arpeejajo said:
The fact that he was beatable or the fact that he was hardly beatable? I had to use cheats to beat Sephiroth in KH2. I beat him legit (after grinding to like level 80) in KH1.
KH1's Sephiroth is a pushover once you get the tactics down. I never attempted to learn the tactics for KH2's Sephiroth so I still have tons of trouble with him.
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I only knew half of the things granville said. KH is probably one of the most... incredibly complicated storylines. I am not a fanboy (contrary to what people may thing due to my username) but wow, that is a huuuuge story. I do agree that if they took CoM and turned it into a numbered/main game instead of making it into a spin-off like game, it would have been very good. It contains to many important elements to be ignored as a spin-off. The reason why so many people became confused on the arrival of KH2 is because a majority of players did not play CoM.
Coded was unnecessary to be truthful. The story is a huge piece of filler. They could have actually turned it into a mini-game that accompanied another game (KH2 or BBS), it would have worked better. The secret ending could have worked from there. I will admit that the gameplay is enjoyable though, but it's unnecessary as a seperate game.
Square is not killing Kingdom Hearts. In fact, making more games makes it more accessible to new players. It allows new players to play a game on their accustomed platform and then play the other games in turn.
Remember that Disney is creating a gimmick to make the character of Mickey Mouse more adventurous and dark? This along with Epic Mickey is accomplishing that.
The complicated story and cast of characters doesn't kill it, it makes people crave it more. I think it's a brilliant selling point, more games equals more fans, more fans equals more sales, more sales equals more money, and more money equals more games. Cliffhangers are what helps sell a sequel.
Coded was unnecessary to be truthful. The story is a huge piece of filler. They could have actually turned it into a mini-game that accompanied another game (KH2 or BBS), it would have worked better. The secret ending could have worked from there. I will admit that the gameplay is enjoyable though, but it's unnecessary as a seperate game.
Square is not killing Kingdom Hearts. In fact, making more games makes it more accessible to new players. It allows new players to play a game on their accustomed platform and then play the other games in turn.
Remember that Disney is creating a gimmick to make the character of Mickey Mouse more adventurous and dark? This along with Epic Mickey is accomplishing that.
The complicated story and cast of characters doesn't kill it, it makes people crave it more. I think it's a brilliant selling point, more games equals more fans, more fans equals more sales, more sales equals more money, and more money equals more games. Cliffhangers are what helps sell a sequel.
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the op has answered their own questions, the series has gone too far it's starting to get like pokemon now, 1 was was ok but i got bored of it, 2's gameplay was better but again i got bored of it half way, i haven't touched a kh game since.
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