roeVwade:Same-sex couples updating legal status after Supreme Court’s decision on abortion (Jay Reeves) [+CNN clip]

[MartyDreamy]

Actually, you screamed "my body, my choice" for decades until Covid hit and you threw it all out the window. The hypocrisy lands squarely on the left.

"you" who? Also what lol, your reply doesn't make any sense. I am not anti Vax or that shit lmao

Not more rights. Just equal rights. Why don't you want equality for all?

It's not equal rights since the mass of cells has apparently more rights than a living person.

Most states have exceptions to their abortion laws, but you must be too lazy to look it up.

Not lazy, I know that they have exceptions in MOST states. What about the states that completely ban abortion?

 

[SyphenFreht]

Prove it.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...monte/patient-resources/gender-affirming-care

Straight from the horse's mouth, Planned Parenthood explicitly states that it does not provide gender reassignment surgeries to anyone under the age of 18 without parental consent, of which 16 is the minimum allowable age. Again, from the company itself.


https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-...-psychological-distress-or-suicidal-ideation/

This study shows that there's actually a 42% decrease in overall suicide rates among post op recipients.

Not more rights. Just equal rights.

They can have rights when they're born.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...ion-decisions-than-during-19th-century-185947

Actually, you screamed "my body, my choice" for decades until Covid hit and you threw it all out the window. The hypocrisy lands squarely on the left.

No it was still my body, my choice. COVID was a public health issue that, by the way, your incompetent man baby of a president chose to do not much about, affected way more people over a much smaller span of time than abortion does.

 

[TraderPatTX]

"you" who? Also what lol, your reply doesn't make any sense. I am not anti Vax or that shit lmao

It's not equal rights since the mass of cells has apparently more rights than a living person.

Not lazy, I know that they have exceptions in MOST states. What about the states that completely ban abortion?

Everybody has an equal right to life. The left does not believe in that most basic of right because it may be inconvenient to having a good time.

Since the US was founded on federalism, people are free to move to whatever state they desire. In fact, people are doing it now as they are leaving California and New York. But the left is lazy and want to impose their religious beliefs on everybody else through the courts instead of allowing the people to have a voice and vote on such matters in their state legislatures.

Regardless, it's a done deal. Stop crying about it and accept it, or go state to state and pass laws legalizing abortion. Your choice.

 

[SyphenFreht]

Trump isn't president anymore and you seem to really miss him. Also, he didn't incite anything. There was a second stage setup at the Supreme Court that people were expected to go to. So that blows up the left's talking points that this was all planned.

None of this is based on reality. You began the name dropping with your Colbert reference like a whole 'nother thread ago. Quit whining about people slurring Orange Bad Man when the only reason why he's relevant is because the whole Roe v Wade debacle was intended as a distraction to the Jan 6th hearings that he helped orchestrate. It doesn't matter that he isn't president; a lot of the bigotry we see coming from the alt right today is still fallout from him getting elected, not to mention all the crap he stills try to push.

Like more voter fraud nonsense:

https://madison.com/news/local/govt...cle_828da401-6fbf-5098-aca5-27410fe811e9.html

I can't blame Republicans for current gas prices when they were $1.87 when a Republican was president. If a Republican president shut down pipelines and oil and gas leases, I would blame him. That didn't happen.

And this shows how little political knowledge you actually have.

Riddle me this: if the Keystone Pipeline was so viable as a solution to oil, why did Trump do nothing about it while he was in office?

And if gas prices being high is a result of Biden, why are they suddenly starting a slow drip down?

Hope that was enough 'splainin' and that you were able to follow along and understand.

Well considering you explained nothing and instead relied on further misinformation and unreliable context to pad your post count, I'd say you failed.

 

[mituzora]

Not more rights. Just equal rights. Why don't you want equality for all?

Actually, you screamed "my body, my choice" for decades until Covid hit and you threw it all out the window. The hypocrisy lands squarely on the left.

Most states have exceptions to their abortion laws, but you must be too lazy to look it up.

As I stated before but you clearly didn't read, or gave a crap to read:

Most "Leftists" I know don't give a shit if you vaccinate or not. Sure the vocal minority is all like "Oh you need to get vaccinated" but most of them are in the same mindset that if you don't want to get vaccinated, that's fine, but don't expect go to into places of business who are clearly using their rights to tell you to GTFO if you aren't vaccinated. that's not a mandatory vaccination, that's just a business using their rights to deny you service. Same premise, their body, their choice; their business, their choice.

It's like you rightists all bitching about censorship on Facebook(which mind you, left leaning people aren't happy about either), when it is their given right as a private entity to censor your posts. you signed that TOS when you signed up, so you have to abide by their rules. and if you don't like it, you're 100 percent entitled to drop the platform and use something else.

you can't have it one way or the other, but apparently you think it's okay impose constraints just because it's a uterus...

 

[mituzora]

But the left is lazy and want to impose their religious beliefs on everybody else through the courts instead of allowing the people to have a voice and vote on such matters in their state legislatures.

Says the person who is trying to impose their religious beliefs on people with uterus's choice.

 

[SyphenFreht]

Everybody has an equal right to life.

Yes but the requirement is that they're people. Can fetuses legally buy and own guns?

But the left is lazy and want to impose their religious beliefs...

What uh, what religious beliefs you referring to there, buddy?

... or go state to state and pass laws legalizing abortion

That's what we're doing, Kemosabe. Kinda smacks your quote about lefties being lazy above tho, doesn't it?

 

[Lacius]

Everybody has an equal right to life. The left does not believe in that most basic of right because it may be inconvenient to having a good time.

Everyone has an equal right to bodily autonomy, but not a right to use someone else's body.

Come back when you understand.

 

[TraderPatTX]

None of this is based on reality. You began the name dropping with your Colbert reference like a whole 'nother thread ago. Quit whining about people slurring Orange Bad Man when the only reason why he's relevant is because the whole Roe v Wade debacle was intended as a distraction to the Jan 6th hearings that he helped orchestrate. It doesn't matter that he isn't president; a lot of the bigotry we see coming from the alt right today is still fallout from him getting elected, not to mention all the crap he stills try to push.

Like more voter fraud nonsense:

https://madison.com/news/local/govt...cle_828da401-6fbf-5098-aca5-27410fe811e9.html



And this shows how little political knowledge you actually have.

Riddle me this: if the Keystone Pipeline was so viable as a solution to oil, why did Trump do nothing about it while he was in office?

And if gas prices being high is a result of Biden, why are they suddenly starting a slow drip down?



Well considering you explained nothing and instead relied on further misinformation and unreliable context to pad your post count, I'd say you failed.

Gas prices are dipping because Biden is releasing form the Strategic Oil Reserves. It's a temporary fix, especially since he is selling oil to the Chinese company connected to Hunter Biden. All he has to do was nothing when he came into office and we wouldn't be in this mess. But the Green Energy Lobby dictates policy now and they want expensive gas so their solar panels and windmills look better. Even Obama said that fuel would have to necessarily skyrocket when he was in office. Do you people even listen to your own politicians when they speak? None of this is an accident and this isn't because Biden is stupid even though he is in obvious mental decline. His handlers know what they are doing.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Everyone has an equal right to bodily autonomy, but not a right to use someone else's body.

Come back when you understand.

The right to life supersedes the right to bodily autonomy. If you have no life, why would you need bodily autonomy?

Come back when you understand that.

 

[Lacius]

The right to life supersedes the right to bodily autonomy. If you have no life, why would you need bodily autonomy?

Come back when you understand that.

If life supercedes bodily autonomy, then that means you're okay with the state forcing you to donate an organ to save someone's life, lol.

You haven't thought this through.

 

[SyphenFreht]

Gas prices are dipping because Biden is releasing form the Strategic Oil Reserves. It's a temporary fix, especially since he is selling oil to the Chinese company connected to Hunter Biden. All he has to do was nothing when he came into office and we wouldn't be in this mess. But the Green Energy Lobby dictates policy now and they want expensive gas so their solar panels and windmills look better. Even Obama said that fuel would have to necessarily skyrocket when he was in office. Do you people even listen to your own politicians when they speak? None of this is an accident and this isn't because Biden is stupid even though he is in obvious mental decline. His handlers know what they are doing.

So if it's Green Energy Lobby pushing solar panels and windmills through price gouging in gas, wouldn't that be a problem that ran rampant well before Biden's presidency? And if so, why didn't Trump fix that when he wasn't signing off on the Keystone Pipeline? You keep blaming the left side for all of America's problems while idolizing the right, but then revert back to calling people out for supposedly supporting the government and corporate media when your arguments fail.

It's also baffling that you seem to think the sudden rise in delivery and rideshare services are inexplicably not a majority of the blame. Like I shouldn't have to ask, but... Do you understand what supply and demand is?

Expensive gas is annoying af; everyone's pissed off about it, and to further fan the flames in your favor:

https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-BIDEN/POLL/nmopagnqapa/

55% of Americans don't favor Biden, and I'm pretty sure I glanced a yahoo article that stated something alongside the lines of 74% of Democrats don't care for him. What doesn't make sense is how you think a president would come into office and literally sabotage every moment of said presidency. I'll admit even Trump had some good policies and ideas, but all this continuous blame on one president or another for actions that are clearly beyond their control is naive at best.

 

[AleronIves]

Before Roe was overturned, it could not violate a person's bodily autonomy rights.

Yes, it could. Are you saying the government could not ban certain drugs under Roe? AFAIK Roe created a right to abortion based on a right to privacy, but it did not extend that privacy right to issues other than abortion.

Hmm, so someone should be forced to carry a fetus against their will for the sake of the fetus' "life," yeeeeet...no one can be forced to get a vaccine for the sake of other people's lives, because...?

This is an interesting point. The government has thus far been able to violate people's bodily autonomy by mandating vaccines (for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, etc.) in order to attend school. In the absolutist view of bodily autonomy, does this mean you think all vaccine mandates should be repealed, since violating bodily autonomy for any reason, including for public health, is unacceptable?

 

[Lacius]

Yes, it could. Are you saying the government could not ban certain drugs under Roe? AFAIK Roe created a right to abortion based on a right to privacy, but it did not extend that privacy right to issues other than abortion.

I was snidely referencing abortion access and the right's hypocritical claim that bodily autonomy is meaningless if another life is at stake. Other than that, everything you said is fair, and I don't disagree with you. I think just about all drugs should be legalized.

 

[SG854]

It isn't that bodily autonomy isn't real so much as it's not the only issue at play, and trying to reduce the complexities of creating new human life into a single issue is a gross oversimplification based on the assumption that a fetus never has any rights (or at least no rights that could possibly compete against the woman's rights), and thus the woman's rights reign supreme in all situations.

A fetus has less rights then a Black Person lol. And less rights then a Women.

 

[AleronIves]

@Lacius

I will also put the question to you: do you think all vaccine mandates should be repealed, since they violate bodily autonomy?

 

[SG854]

Yes, it could. Are you saying the government could not ban certain drugs under Roe? AFAIK Roe created a right to abortion based on a right to privacy, but it did not extend that privacy right to issues other than abortion.


This is an interesting point. The government has thus far been able to violate people's bodily autonomy by mandating vaccines (for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, etc.) in order to attend school. In the absolutist view of bodily autonomy, does this mean you think all vaccine mandates should be repealed, since violating bodily autonomy for any reason, including for public health, is unacceptable?

Government tends to violate bodily autonomy whenever they feel like it. Vaccine Mandates. War Draft. Men's body used as front line canon fodder in war or face jail time and/or fine. Prostitution is illegal in places.

 

[Lacius]

@Lacius

I will also put the question to you: do you think all vaccine mandates should be repealed, since they violate bodily autonomy?

A vaccine mandate doesn't violate bodily autonomy unless the government is making it illegal to not be vaccinated. For example, if proof of vaccination is required to enter a nursing home, you have the option of not entering the nursing home.

 

[Lacius]

Government tends to violate bodily autonomy whenever they feel like it. Vaccine Mandates. War Draft. Men's body used as front line canon fodder in war or face jail time and/or fine. Prostitution is illegal in places.

Vaccine mandates don't violate bodily autonomy. I at least sort of agree with you about the draft and prostitution. I'm for legal prostitution, but one could argue that it's the exchange of money that's illegal, not the sex, and therefore not a violation of bodily autonomy.

 

[AleronIves]

If the government has the ability to regulate what you do with your womb, *ALL* bodily autonomy rights are on the table for them to devour now.

The problem with this line of thinking is that although the uterus is part of your body, the fetus inside it is not part of your body. It is a separate entity with its own body that happens to be inside your body. Since the fetus is a separate entity, this opens a host of questions regarding what rights it might have, when those rights are granted, and how to weigh those rights against the woman's.

It's also difficult to say that the fetus violates your bodily autonomy, since you essentially invited it to take up residence in your uterus by having unprotected sex. Even if we ignore this and say that the key issue is that of bodily autonomy, you have to weigh the woman's right to bodily autonomy against the fetus's right to bodily autonomy, as having an abortion will kill it, and killing its body violates its bodily autonomy. If you claim that the fetus has no such right, yet once it's born, the baby will have that right, then you must establish a rule to determine when the fetus gains bodily autonomy rights, since your claim is that it doesn't have them from the beginning.

These problems are messy, so I think a much cleaner approach is to avoid the topic of bodily autonomy and instead focus on the topic of parental consent. If a fetus has a right to life, that right must have been bestowed by its parents, as they made the choice to create it. If a pregnancy occurs when both parents did not give consent, either because of contraceptive failure or because of rape, then it would follow that the fetus does not have a right to life, because both parents did not create it on purpose. As such, we could conclude that they have the right to kill the fetus, since they never gave it the right to life by consenting to its creation.

This seems like a much cleaner rationale to me as to why abortion must be allowed, as compared to the messy business of trying to weigh the bodily autonomy rights of two different parties. If you establish that the parents have the right to decide whether to have children and to stop the process of an unintended pregnancy as a result, then the bodily autonomy problems are automatically resolved: the fetus never had any rights to begin with, because both parents didn't consent to its creation, so killing it is permissible. Since it's impossible to prove that a pregnancy resulted from contraceptive failure and not unprotected sex, abortion must be allowed for everyone.