Who should pay for the US/Mexican wall?

[mrdude]

37 indictments and 7 convictions from the Trump administration so far. We've just learned over the last few days that Manafort personally handed Trump campaign polling data to Russian intelligence, and that Trump has been trying to keep records of meetings with Putin secret from even his own officials. He didn't even deny being a Russian asset on Fox News, of all friendly outlets.

You're absolutely delusional if you think any of this would be happening with Clinton as president. She even called out all of this criminality very specifically during the debates.

So like I said, they are both scumbags - and they are the best people your country had a choice between. Money talks.

 

[Xzi]

So like I said, they are both scumbags - and they are the best people your country had a choice between. Money talks.

This is the epitome of the phrase, "it's easier to fool a person than to convince them that they've been fooled." The evidence that Clinton is who you believe her to be is nil. I suppose the one benefit of Trump being elected is that we now have proof positive he's a corrupt mobster, and the public attention that comes with being president is ultimately what will lead to his indictment and conviction.

 

[GhostLatte]

The wall is never going to be built. It's disgraceful that the government is still shutdown from this bullshit.

 

[bodefuceta]

Ideally it'd be paid with the money they'd send ISRAEL for no fucking reason.

 

[Deleted User]

I really wonder how we'll look back at this period in time in history. Trump already broke many traditions and honors and made more dumb and dangerous remarks than any US president I know. Not only is US on track for breaking the longest government shutdown in recent history, it is all for something that is COMPLETELY NORMAL. The border situation is at best moderately worse than before, but in reality it's just the same.

But Donald Trump made a campaign promise that was so ridiculously dumb that opponents didn't bother to disprove ("Mexico paying for a wall with USA? They already replied they weren't going to!"). Nobody thought that clown would beat all the other candidates, and even less people thought he'd attempt to follow through on his lie. The result: he's looking for someone to blame. Mexico would be pretty stupid to blame (he never even started any dialogue in that direction, he has zero bargaining power and - again - they denied they were going to pay for it even during the election campaign). So he once again tries to blame democrats.

Fucking democrats...how dare they not wanting to waste US tax dollars? Even worse: they chose to believe people in the field rather than...than...erm...well, who besides Donald IS saying this wall is a good idea?

And now it comes to this.
George W. Bush made a public speech after 9/11
Barack Obama made a public speech to announce they killed Osama Bin Laden
Donald J. Trump made a public speech to plea to build a wall


Honestly: why do you Americans let him do all that shit? He's on the brink of being trialed as a fraud, and in the mean time you just let him piss all over whatever ethical standards there are on being the president of the united states? Why?

...on second thought: don't answer that question. I don't wanna hear it.

honestly hes a fucking retard my family doesnt like me because i will not vote for him and i cant stand his oompa loompa mcdonalds face. This hamburgler is a racist and this wall i hope never happens i wont say much more but i dislike him very much.

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Ideally it'd be paid with the money they'd send ISRAEL for no fucking reason.

no he will use the treasury as his purse social security will go away writings on the wall and it looks like the movie they live has became reality

 

[Fugelmir]

I know who should build the wall. He'll cover the costs, too.

 

[DinohScene]

Keep it civil people!
Thank you!

 

[FAST6191]

Republicans got completely crushed in the midterm election. Trump's numbers keep falling during the shutdown, we'll see how low they can go after he crashes the economy as well.

I don't know if crushed is a terribly accurate word here. I was there for the run up and voting. The "blue wave" never quite materialised, several what were dubbed sure fire races weren't, many states appear to be quite split, and the end results were not enough to do the supermajority thing. Also the senate appears to be Republican controlled still, and they had more gains.

 

[kuwanger]

Every time I hear about a Red or Blue wave, I always think of The Wave. I don't think Trump cares about his numbers; I don't see why most politicians would since most in the Federal Government have such horrible numbers. Clearly few are following the will of the people. There isn't some coherent strategy that's being offered. Instead, all we have is constantly hoping for gridlock so nothing gets done. In that way, Trump has been key to the pragmatic strategy which the US has adopted for so long.

 

[Fugelmir]

Keep it civil people!
Thank you!

It would be nice to have a civilized conversation without big brother censoring everything. Donald J. Trump is quite an excellent president and his approval rating is up if compared to Obama's at the same timeframe.

It's a pendulum. Democrats get the vote, get too fringe, then get voted out, the Republicans do the same.

I'm very jealous that the United States has an anti globalist leader. You folks are lucky.

 

[Xzi]

I don't know if crushed is a terribly accurate word here. I was there for the run up and voting. The "blue wave" never quite materialised, several what were dubbed sure fire races weren't, many states appear to be quite split, and the end results were not enough to do the supermajority thing. Also the senate appears to be Republican controlled still, and they had more gains.

It was the largest margin Democrats have ever won a midterm election by, edging out their win during the Nixon administration. Muslim women were elected in red states. It doesn't get much more definitive than that. Ever since his election, Trump's endorsement has been absolutely toxic to other candidates. He almost lost Texas, FFS.

 

[KingVamp]

I think you're missing the point - you've a country of over 350 million people, and these two buffoons are the best two people your country could get to run it. Clinton is as bad as Trump - if not worse, but it's not a competition. Clinton is a criminal and Trump lacks any empathy and is border line psychopath.

I think that Trump has has a pretty bum deal with being president so far, I don't ever recall any other president getting the amount of crap and biased news outlets running fake stories, or being investigated as much as he has been - and all to tarnish him.

This seems like a big change of tone here. You went from defending Trump, saying all these things are only happening to tarnish him, to calling him a borderline psychopathic buffoon?

 

[mrdude]

This seems like a big change of tone here. You went from defending Trump, saying all these things are only happening to tarnish him, to calling him a borderline psychopathic buffoon?

I'm neutral in the entire Trump V'S Clinton thing, I don't live in USA so it doesn't affect me because I don't vote for either of them. I'm literally stating my views from an outside perspective.

1: Trump seems to be getting picked on by the media, more than any other president in living memory.
2: He's an Idiot.
3: Clinton is a criminal.
4: USA population is 350 + million, and these two idiots were who YOU guys picked.

All 4 of these things are in my mind true, whether you agree or not is up to you.

 

[kuwanger]

1: Trump seems to be getting picked on by the media, more than any other president in living memory.
2: He's an Idiot.

Maybe those two are related? I mean, it's hard to not criticize people who say and do stupid things who the power to enact at least some of those stupid things, no matter how many checks and balances we supposedly have. I mean, look at the all the torture authorized by GWB. Or I guess we can pretend he's not really responsible and all the bucks go everywhere, or however it was Trump put it. I would say this, at least so far GWB was much worse for what he allowed and authorized. How quickly we forget that because "a borderline psychopathic buffoon". At least Trump is the sort of villain that twirls his mustache.

 

[FAST6191]

It was the largest margin Democrats have ever won a midterm election by, edging out their win during the Nixon administration. Muslim women were elected in red states. It doesn't get much more definitive than that. Ever since his election, Trump's endorsement has been absolutely toxic to other candidates. He almost lost Texas, FFS.

An amusing factoid but where rubber hits the road, again an amusing factoid and possibly and interesting either demographic or cultural thing to consider but numbers wise of not all that much relevance. Texas wise then post 70s it does seem to be a republican state, but I dare say the more interesting discussion there would be the turnout (28.9 percent) and what might follow there.

 

[Xzi]

An amusing factoid but where rubber hits the road, again an amusing factoid and possibly and interesting either demographic or cultural thing to consider but numbers wise of not all that much relevance.

Considering how low Democrat turnout for the midterm typically is, it's definitely significant. Extrapolating the midterm results to the general election means a win by a wide margin for Democrats in 2020. All they have to do is equal that same turnout, and odds are there's actually going to be a lot more interest in the 2020 election than the midterm.

1: Trump seems to be getting picked on by the media, more than any other president in living memory.

Give me a break. The media attacked Obama for using dijon mustard and wearing a tan suit. He didn't throw a tantrum and shutdown the government over it, he kept working. If you're gonna run for president, it's obvious you're going to be under a lot of scrutiny. Nobody puts up with a whiny bitch playing the victim card 24/7 for very long.

2: He's an Idiot.

Worse than that, he's an idiot with no experience relevant to the presidency. There were a lot of idiots running in the Republican primary, but any one of them still would've been more qualified than Trump.

3: Clinton is a criminal.

Opinion does not determine one's criminal status. She has never been convicted of anything. Neither has Trump (yet), but obviously there are several active investigations which he is subject in, and he's been named as an unindicted co-conspirator to at least one crime by his personal attorney, Michael Cohen.

4: USA population is 350 + million, and these two idiots were who YOU guys picked.

The entire election cycle was manipulated by foreign interference, so really we didn't pick them any more than the UK picked Brexit. Even among those two we clearly made the wrong choice, but IMO if we had been free from outside influence, Bernie Sanders would be president right now.

 

[lexarvn]

Most illegal immigration right now isn't from the mexico border, and people heavily tend to illegally cross at the same places. Here is an interesting article on it: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/6836...tion-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us
And note the data sources. If the data from the Department of Homeland Security and Customs and Border Protection can't be trusted to have accurate data, then no one does.

So I'm of the opinion that a wall will mostly be useless at this point

 

[Deleted User]

Purpose of the wall is to stop Human Trafficking and cut 1 source of income to the bad side of the so called US goverment
Kids from all over the world are being brought in form the mexico border, this would cripple that enterprise

Trump could build it and might build it militarily but hes not a dictator and is trying to go through congress as it should be

The bad side of the goverment is trying to make him look like a traitor but putin is actually working with him - The deep state is in deep shit

When you see this shit on the main channel news then you know the deep state is done

This generation lives in a very special time

 

[Xzi]

Most illegal immigration right now isn't from the mexico border, and people heavily tend to illegally cross at the same places. Here is an interesting article on it: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/6836...tion-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us
And note the data sources. If the data from the Department of Homeland Security and Customs and Border Protection can't be trusted to have accurate data, then no one does.

So I'm of the opinion that a wall will mostly be useless at this point

Even funnier: the Border Patrol union just recently deleted a webpage, opened in 2012, which vehemently opposed a border wall.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019...012-webpage-opposing-walls-and-fences-1081250

They now claim to support the wall, so the article is a back and forth argument between 2012 Border Patrol union and 2019 Border Patrol union.

A union that represents Border Patrol agents recently deleted a webpage that said building walls and fences along the border to stop illegal immigration would be “wasting taxpayer money.”

The deleted webpage, posted in 2012, argued that border barriers don’t tackle the root causes of migration — and could potentially encourage more migrants to enter the U.S. fraudulently or overstay visas.

On the deleted webpage, the union makes an emphatic case against physical barriers.

“Walls and fences are only a speed bump,” the webpage reads. “People who want to come to the United States to obtain employment will continue to go over, under, and around the walls and fences that are constructed.”

The union argued additional barriers “will undoubtedly result in an increase in fraudulent documents and smuggling through the ports of entry” as frustrated migrants seek other modes of entry.“

I think 2019 Border Patrol union makes a very good case about one thing, and it's in the very last sentence of the article:

Still, the union said at the time that physical barriers will remain “essential” if the federal government doesn’t target employers who hire undocumented immigrants.

We really need to be going after the people who employ illegal immigrants more than anybody if we truly wanted to remove the appeal to illegally immigrate. That won't happen though because the president employs illegals.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-golf-club-employed-illegal-immigrants-report-2018-12-06

 

[Taleweaver]

It would be nice to have a civilized conversation without big brother censoring everything. Donald J. Trump is quite an excellent president and his approval rating is up if compared to Obama's at the same timeframe.

Reality would like a word with you.

...or are you saying that shutting down the government and putting 800'000 people on unpaid jobs somehow increased his popularity since december?