opinions on teaching about lgbtq+ in school

[mikefor20]

Leave kids alone... hmmm... sounds pretty trite. This notion really needs to be unpacked.

As I said earlier in the thread, my sister was an inclusive teacher for many years. She wasn't indoctrinating any of the students to become gay, trans, bi, or teaching them how to use a litter box, nor forcing them to read Das Kapital. Rather, as per provincial government guidelines, she fostered a safe, inclusive, educational environment where kids were free to express their sexual and gender identities without fear of reprisal or bullying.

This did nothing to "steal their childhood". But what it did do is allow them to be themselves in class, allowing them to be free from the bigotry of the outside world. So, rather than destroying their innocence, she helped to protect it by creating an environment where they could be authentic, be themselves. And she was not alone in this... teachers across Canada and around the world share this goal.

How young? I have seen people, with my own eyes, putting their 7 year old boy in a dress. "You like being pretty, don't you?" "You can be a Mommy too someday!" It's all bad. 7 year old. If your sister is involved in anything close to that, shame on her. High school kids have an idea of themselves. It's a bit different. I'm not comfortable with sexualizing teens but I lost my virginity in sophmore year so it depends on the case. I think it's a confusing age and it may be beneficial to be open. Maybe. Considering they have the internet they can see anything they can imagine. I didn't have that in 1993. I bet if she got a complaint from parents she'd be shit canned. Depending how far the discussion goes. At lease in half the USA.

 

[RetroGen]

How young? I have seen people, with my own eyes, putting their 7 year old boy in a dress. "You like being pretty, don't you?" "You can be a Mommy too someday!" It's all bad. 7 year old. If your sister is involved in anything close to that, shame on her. High school kids have an idea of themselves. It's a bit different. I'm not comfortable with sexualizing teens but I lost my virginity in sophmore year so it depends on the case. I think it's a confusing age and it may be beneficial to be open. Maybe. Considering they have the internet they can see anything they can imagine. I didn't have that in 1993. I bet if she got a complaint from parents she'd be shit canned. Depending how far the discussion goes. At lease in half the USA.

People? What people? Parents? Teachers?

I explained how it works in reality. Teachers provide an inclusive educational environment, vetted by medical, scientific, and government authorities. They don't (cross) dress anyone, show students x-rated content, bring out a bunch of BDSM paraphernalia, etc... They simply foster a safe space for students, so they can learn in relative freedom and safety, regardless of where they might be on the rainbow. How people reach so far beyond that escapes me. It's ridiculous to see these claims, but it does say something about the author's hang-ups.

 

[mikefor20]

People? What people? Parents? Teachers?

I explained how it works in reality. Teachers provide an inclusive educational environment, vetted by medical, scientific, and government authorities. They don't (cross) dress anyone, show students x-rated content, bring out a bunch of BDSM paraphernalia, etc... They simply foster a safe space for students, so they can learn in relative freedom and safety, regardless of where they might be on the rainbow. How people reach so far beyond that escapes me. It's ridiculous to see these claims, but it does say something about the author's hang-ups.

It was a parent. I've seen a lot of bad parents. I worked at a mall out of high school going to college. It was amazing. I was just giving an example of one of the extreme things I have seen. It was relevant because it was someone trying to convince a kid wayyy too young. I know most teachers don't do that. Some have, to be fair. I was asking what grade she teaches.... I have no hangups on it. Nice job trying to wag the dog. I was trying to entertain a conversation with you. My bad.

I think your reaction to me saying leave the kids alone shows your tendencies. Most people don't object.

 

[RetroGen]

It was a parent. I've seen a lot of bad parents. I worked at a mall out of high school going to college. It was amazing. I was just giving an example of some of the extreme things I have seen. It was relevant because it was someone tryong to convince a kid wayyy to young. I know most teachers don't do that. Some have to be fair. II was asking what grade she teaches.... i have no hangups on it. Nice job trying to wag the dog. I was trying to entertain a conversation with you. My bad.

Inclusivity is not about trying to convince anyone. It is about accepting people as they are.

And what about the parents who force cisgender norms on their transgender children? IMO, that's equally bad. What people seem to miss is that hetero-binary gender indoctrination generally starts at birth, regardless of the child's actual orientation. Straight people probably accept this uncritically, because it accords with their identity; most are probably unaware and haven't even thought about it. But that doesn't make it right. I'm not suggesting that anyone should force their children to crossdress, nor do I condone forcing cisgender conformity. But that speaks to the real world of inclusive teaching, letting kids be themselves....

So, if you really, actually, honestly, want kids left alone to be kids, then don't force gender norms on them... let them be themselves, and support educators who are doing just that.

 

[Bunjolio]

fr, TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS

Inclusivity is not about trying to convince anyone. It is about accepting people as they are.

And what about the parents who force cisgender norms on their transgender children? IMO, that's equally bad. What people seem to miss is that hetero-binary gender indoctrination generally starts at birth, regardless of the child's actual orientation. Straight people probably accept this uncritically, because it accords with their identity; most are probably unaware and haven't even thought about it. But that doesn't make it right. I'm not suggesting that anyone should force their children to crossdress, nor do I condone forcing cisgender conformity. But that speaks to the real world of inclusive teaching, letting kids be themselves....

So, if you really, actually, honestly, want kids left alone to be kids, then don't force gender norms on them... let them be themselves.

 

[mikefor20]

Inclusivity is not about trying to convince anyone. It is about accepting people as they are.

And what about the parents who force cisgender norms on their transgender children? IMO, that's equally bad. What people seem to miss is that hetero-binary gender indoctrination generally starts at birth, regardless of the child's actual orientation. Straight people probably accept this uncritically, because it accords with their identity; most are probably unaware and haven't even thought about it. But that doesn't make it right. I'm not suggesting that anyone should force their children to crossdress, nor do I condone forcing cisgender conformity. But that speaks to the real world of inclusive teaching, letting kids be themselves....

So, if you really, actually, honestly, want kids left alone to be kids, then don't force gender norms on them... let them be themselves.

Leave those kids alone is what I said. No ifs ands or buts.

Leave the kids alone.

 

[nubman33]

So some states have banned even talking about certain topics or using certain words, but i think we should teach young kids that its ok to be who they want, they should be able to safely express how they feel without being in danger. Some say its grooming kids, but how is it, its just educating them about how some people are different. Its natural. Im 15, im bisexual, its who i am.

keep your bullshit away from kids. sick fuck.

 

[RetroGen]

Leave those kids alone is what I said. No ifs ands or buts.

Leave the kids alone.

As I intimated, this phrase is without substance. I laid out the rationale explaining why inclusivity serves that purpose. Trite slogans really add nothing to discourse. I want kids to thrive, and inclusivity serves that goal.

 

[mikefor20]

fr, TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS

That depends. Equal rights are great. Accross the board. That's not usually the issue. Extra rights are not okay. If it's extra rights due to sex, religion, marital status, motherhood or whatever, its bullshit.

Post automatically merged: Sep 21, 2023

As I intimated, this phrase is without substance. I laid out the rationale explaining why inclusivity serves that purpose. Trite slogans really add nothing to discourse. I want kids to thrive, and inclusivity serves that goal.

Dude. Leave them alone. What age are you rambling about? Get a grip.

 

[Bunjolio]

keep your bullshit away from kids. sick fuck.

funny, i am 15, so technically i am a kid?

 

[lolcatzuru]

So some states have banned even talking about certain topics or using certain words, but i think we should teach young kids that its ok to be who they want, they should be able to safely express how they feel without being in danger. Some say its grooming kids, but how is it, its just educating them about how some people are different. Its natural. Im 15, im bisexual, its who i am.

no state has banned any words.

 

[Bunjolio]

Leave those kids alone is what I said. No ifs ands or buts.

Leave the kids alone.

still dont understand whats wrong with informing them that lgbtq people exist, and that they are normal

Post automatically merged: Sep 21, 2023

no state has banned any words.

https://19thnews.org/2023/08/lgbtq-issues-curriculum-bans-schools-survey/

 

[RetroGen]

Canada actually has generational census data on transgender and non-binary people. It shouldn't be too much of a surprise to find a significantly higher percentage of trans and non-binary people in younger generations. Why is that? I'd hypothesize that it is largely due to greater inclusivity in society over time, allowing more people to identify authentically generationally. It also seems likely that these people have always existed, but were forced into the closet in prior generations during eras of greater LGBTQ+ bigotry. So, when teachers foster an inclusive environment, they are actually just allowing kids to be themselves. Conversely, if we remove inclusivity from education, it will simply force these people back into the closet and lead to worse outcomes. If freedom of expression, authenticity, and the thriving of society are truly the goal here, I know which path I'll support.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220427/dq220427b-eng.htm

 

[BlazeMasterBM]

it's unnecessary

 

[Haymose]

Family values is a smoke screen. “I don’t care if these kids don’t get free lunches but I care a whole lot if anything queer is mentioned in the classroom.”

 

[mikefor20]

still dont understand whats wrong with informing them that lgbtq people exist, and that they are normal

Post automatically merged: Sep 21, 2023

https://19thnews.org/2023/08/lgbtq-issues-curriculum-bans-schools-survey/

Let them be kids. If they call their junk weiner or kitty, they don't need this information. There's lots of normal things kids dont need to be thinking about. What the hell is wrong with you?

Family values is a smoke screen. “I don’t care if these kids get free lunches but I care a whole lot if anything queer is mentioned in the classroom.”

Wtf does free lunches have to do with it?

You all are crazy.

 

[supermist]

keep your bullshit away from kids. sick fuck.

Fuck off bigot.

 

[mikefor20]

Canada actually has generational census data on transgender and non-binary people. It shouldn't be too much of a surprise to find a significantly higher percentage of trans and non-binary people in younger generations. Why is that? I'd hypothesize that it is largely due to greater inclusivity in society over time, allowing more people to identify authentically generationally. It also seems likely that these people have always existed, but were forced into the closet in prior generations during eras of greater LGBTQ+ bigotry. So, when teachers foster an inclusive environment, they are actually just allowing kids to be themselves. Conversely, if we remove inclusivity from education, it will simply force these people back into the closet and lead to worse outcomes. If freedom of expression, authenticity, and the thriving of society are truly the goal here, I know which path I'll support.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220427/dq220427b-eng.htm

Wow. Authentically warped. What age? Still havent heard your response on that. They're children!

 

[Bunjolio]

Family values is a smoke screen. “I don’t care if these kids don’t get free lunches but I care a whole lot if anything queer is mentioned in the classroom.”

lmaooo

 

[concept8192]

For you people calling this kid a sick fuck for being supportive of LGBTQ+ people and asking some genuine questions, can you, at the very least, think of it this way:
Have you ever had a "phase" as a kid, where you're really into something like monster trucks or being emo or whatever? Think of being LGBTQ+ as that. Of course, it might not be a phase, they might stick with this and you have to be accepting of that. But at least treat it as if it is one. Let them explore how they feel in a safe way and stop swearing at them and cursing their very existence, please, you ignorant bigots.
As an 18 year old bisexual guy, I respect you, OP. I hope you have a thicker skin than I do because these people really piss me off