Religion. The Last Debate

[ibis_87]

If you assume there's such entity as God, you assume He is superior to your own level. Otherwise, it's not what we call God. If He is, how is one supposed to UNDERSTAND or EVALUATE His motives with human logic? That's why religion is all about believing.

As for me, I'm pretty much convinced God exists. And believing is a very important part of my life - like the final line of defense when everything is going awfully wrong. When you are, so to say, pushed to the wall, when odds are 10 to 1 you're not gonna make it - believing is the last thing to hold to and fight back. 'cause believe me, all other lines of defense can fall.

 

[Blood Fetish]

And believing is a very important part of my life - like the final line of defense when everything is going awfully wrong.

You just summed up religion. It provides easy, comforting answers to hard questions. A lot of people desperately want to believe that people who are bad will get what's due, even if not in this life. Or that their puppy is waiting for them in puppy heaven. Etc.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

If you assume there's such entity as God, you assume He is superior to your own level. Otherwise, it's not what we call God. If He is, how is one supposed to UNDERSTAND or EVALUATE His motives with human logic? That's why religion is all about believing.

Because God's motives are perfect, and even a rock should be able to understand God's plans. If a plan is flawed because a certain species can't understand it, then the plan itself is flawed. If a perfect plan is flawed, it is illogical to call it a perfect plan. God's plan should be able to be understood with logic.

 

[Tanas]

What gave you the idea if your all powerful you don't need anything?

Think about what you just said for a moment.

God can do whatever it wants! God doesn't need a damn thing!

If god doesnt need a damn thing then why cant he speak for himself?

 

[Uncle FEFL]

What gave you the idea if your all powerful you don't need anything?

Think about what you just said for a moment.

God can do whatever it wants! God doesn't need a damn thing!

If god doesnt need a damn thing then why cant he speak for himself?

A couple interpretations of you post:

Are you agreeing with me?
Do you expect God to speak?
You want God itself to say that it doesn't need anything?

I honestly don't know where you're going with this.

 

[Tanas]

What gave you the idea if your all powerful you don't need anything?

Think about what you just said for a moment.

God can do whatever it wants! God doesn't need a damn thing!

If god doesnt need a damn thing then why cant he speak for himself?

A couple interpretations of you post:

Are you agreeing with me?
Do you expect God to speak?
You want God itself to say that it doesn't need anything?

I honestly don't know where you're going with this.

No I'm not agreeing with you and yes if god is suppose to exist then yes I do expect him to speak or at least give a sign that he actually does, wouldn't you think that a smart thing for him to would be to show himself so that the none believers would become believers? which is the what he wants is it not?

 

[Uncle FEFL]

No I'm not agreeing with you and yes if god is suppose to exist then yes I do expect him to speak or at least give a sign that he actually does, wouldn't you think that a smart thing for him to would be to show himself so that the none believers would become believers? which is the what he wants is it not?

Based on this statement, I think you're misinterpreting my post. I'm just as doubtful as you are. Some Christians have the wrong idea about what a god is supposed to be. They say God has needs, desires, emotions, et cetera. God has nothing of the sort, for God is all-powerful, and has no need for anything.

 

[Magmorph]

No I'm not agreeing with you and yes if god is suppose to exist then yes I do expect him to speak or at least give a sign that he actually does, wouldn't you think that a smart thing for him to would be to show himself so that the none believers would become believers? which is the what he wants is it not?

Based on this statement, I think you're misinterpreting my post. I'm just as doubtful as you are. Some Christians have the wrong idea about what a god is supposed to be. They say God has needs, desires, emotions, et cetera. God has nothing of the sort, for God is all-powerful, and has no need for anything.

God has no need for a universe either. There would be no reason for him to make one.

 

[bnwchbammer]

Religion in and of itself was created out of fear.
It gives people something to fall back on.
Which at times is a good thing.
In other ways, it's terrible.
People argue this too much and end up fighting countless wars over something nobody knows about for sure.
That's why organized religion doesn't work.
Now, just because religion was created out of fear doesn't mean it's all fake.
(Though it's hard to say it's true as well)
It's hard to say whether or not God exists though.
If I think about life in general here's how it goes:
Before me I was nothing.
(That's hard for me to truly comprehend)
Right now, all I know is me.
After me there's either an afterlife of sorts or nothing.
I'd like to think there's an afterlife.
I'd also like to figure out how I couldn't have been me until now.
But if I wasn't here earlier, why does it matter that I won't be here eventually.
But it scares me so much.
Even now, I get chills typing this.
Nothingness is terrible.
That has to be the only reason I believe in a God of sorts.
I'd like to believe my family members, especially my mom, have gone somewhere.
But hell, I don't know at all.
Wish I was crazy enough to believe in reincarnation, that'd be sick.
That would give me an answer to what was before and after me though.
So I guess my answer is in a realistic sense I don't really believe there's a God.
In a hopeful sense I do believe there's a God.
But that fear causes a hell of a lot of hope that there's a God.

 

[Magmorph]

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain

 

[Canonbeat234]

I'm not going into FULL detail about why I type God does exist. However, I will type around 2-3 paragraphs to back-up my claim.

For starters I was a Catholic before switching categories into Christain. My belief in God as when I was Catholic student didn't presuade me from my wicked ways which I was very VERY wicked. I didn't care who the hell God was since mostly in Catholic school you was mostly hearing about Jesus! The Apostle Creed is a great example about Jesus being engraved in my mindset as far as knowing HIS works. Let I said, I didn't know who God was or why did he exist. Even though my mother had bought those VHS videos about the popular Bible stories from Jesus's Birth to New Creation...that still didn't open up my eyes. I was a badass and didn't care about Jesus nor God. I can go to Church on Sundays while joining choirs singing in HIS presense while thinking of evil thoughts. No student in Catholic school wanted to be my friend which I was mostly an outcast then again why should I?! All Catholic students from what I saw are prideful, arrogant, and FUCKING back-stabbers!! They don't got your back when you're feeling depressed, heck they leave you dwelling in your own misery while they enjoy their day. That showed me how can God exist when there's so much evil in this world?!

When I got out from that mess, I went to Jr. High School aka Prison. I was depressed and suicidal which made me mostly a victim from bastards who let to bully on people's anguish. I had attempted to choke myself one time and the students were CHEERING, Laughing, and ROOTING for a helpless soul to die! A security officer prive my hands from my neck, called my mother and report that I was suicidal. To me, I didn't care...where the hell was Jesus or God when I was going through my dark times? After that episode, I talk to my father about it...he didn't help much even though he was born again. My mother kind of soothe the tension in my life. While still at that school, it taught me that my feelings expresses more than my actions. So I became happy, cheerful, positive during 7th and 8th grade. It did help since my attitude was more brighter, I hope for the best and did my best. I had one friend from there and still is his friend till this day. I went to a High School to where its droprate is 40% due to a lot of studying and exams. I passed from with an B average.

When I got inside my father's life, he showed me how this God changed his life. To me I still question how did that happened, to me it must be God since most fathers who change their lives don't even see his first son till he's like 18 or 21. My father came back to my life at the age of 13. So I only knew him about 7-9 years which given me insight how he acts and how he's related to me. Even though we don't have many similiarities, he does help me when he can. He has help me many times when I was about to get kick out from my mother's apartment TWICE. He paid my cell phone bill when I had no money and despite his mistakes. He still willing to call me his son even at this age right now 23. He calls me and tells me I'm going to become someone great.

The reason why I believe God exist is because he can anyone's life turn around completely despite if they were drug dealers, murderers, sex abusers, theives, and even God haters. I mean when I realize that HE does exist, HE started to show me the Favor, Honor, Grace, Glory, Mercy, and Power he gives to people who believes in his son, Jesus. It took me awhile and I'm not without fault here. I do sin, however I pray for forgiveness. God still around us, its how the person percoeve their belief on Him. No one has a clear, it just goes by faith.

 

[user0002]

I don't believe in God (I suppose this thread refers specifically to the Christian notion of god since the word has a capital G, no?), especially a personal god promoted in particular by monotheistic religions, which give their own god all sorts of conflicting characteristics and attributes. But neither do I believe in ancient Greek nor ancient Roman gods. Why should I? Why should one assume there is/are god/s that tinker with the world, tamper with people's daily lives, performs miracles etc when there's no evidence for such. Why assume that the universe would need a god in order to exist? That just adds a completely unnecessary layer of inexplicability to everything. And monotheistic religions are rip-offs of one another anyway, Christianity is a rehashed and slightly modified version of Judaism and Islam is a rehashed and slightly modified version of Christianity.

Furthermore, if we like to think that the universe was created by something/someone and refer to this as god, then HOW do we arrive at conclusions that god has these or those specific characteristics and attributes, tells humans to do this and that like follow the 10 commandments, that there's a heaven and hell and you'll end up there if you do this or that, that you have to set up your personal lives and societies according to these or those specific rules, that god needs nothing but still requires worshipping, plus a ton of other strange things? If we like to assume that the universe was created by something/someone and if we're being honest with ourselves, then we can't really say that god is like Christianity says or Islam says. Yet entire societies were and to this day are based on a certain view of what god is like and follow the rules set by this god (or gods if polytheistic), when in fact nobody really knows anything about the supposed god(s).

All evidence points to the fact that man created god/s in his own image. Thus, why assume god exists? The universe exists, yes, but how did it start, we don't know and may never find out.

 

[ball2012003]

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain

That makes no sense.

 

[Zetta_x]

One thing that annoys me is that people believe that if God exist, then that means their religion is true.

Everyone who has met me knows that my opinion about religion is very harsh. Maybe I am biased about my opinions of religion given I was forced to believe it for many years straight. I make my opinions known when someone questions them. Because of that, people know I don't believe in any common religions today.

The one thing that grinds my gears is when they try making me believe that a God exists. I believe there is some object out there that parttook in the creation of the universe, and that object (whether it is a transcendental being, chain of events, or something else) is defined as God. So I believe that there is a God, but whether not God exists or not has shit to do with whether their religion is the right one.

I hate how we attempt to define God, if there is truly a God, we clearly don't have any idea what it is... I'm going to need to breathe because I am finding myself deleting half the things I am writing to prevent getting into a flame war

 

[Uncle FEFL]

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain

That makes no sense.

"Dead" as in "non-existence." The universe is 13.72 billion years old, and Mark Twain only lived for a very short time (75 years). Twain was not inconvenienced because of this.

 

[user0002]

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain

That makes no sense.

"Dead" as in "non-existence." The universe is 6.72 billion years old, and Mark Twain only lived for a very short time (75 years). Twain was not inconvenienced because of this.

Then Twain's mixing up definitions. To be dead means there had to be a living organism that came to an end of its biological life.

Also, Twain's comment (I was dead -> suffered no inconvenience), that is if he really meant it and wasn't just being whimsical and witty, seems to suggest he believed that mind exists independently of matter, mind-matter dualism.

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

Furthermore, if we like to think that the universe was created by something/someone and refer to this as god, then HOW do we arrive at conclusions that god has these or those specific characteristics and attributes, tells humans to do this and that like follow the 10 commandments, that there's a heaven and hell and you'll end up there if you do this or that, that you have to set up your personal lives and societies according to these or those specific rules, that god needs nothing but still requires worshipping, plus a ton of other strange things? If we like to assume that the universe was created by something/someone and if we're being honest with ourselves, then we can't really say that god is like Christianity says or Islam says. Yet entire societies were and to this day are based on a certain view of what god is like and follow the rules set by this god (or gods if polytheistic), when in fact nobody really knows anything about the supposed god(s).

All evidence points to the fact that man created god/s in his own image. Thus, why assume god exists? The universe exists, yes, but how did it start, we don't know and may never find out.

God doesn't require worshipping. OK, the devil said that man will have more bad people in hell then in heaven thus meaning that man itself is bad. So that's our "purpose" or at least one purpose. God asks you to pray to show your love and belief in him. He doesn't require it.

 

[Magmorph]

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain

That makes no sense.

"Dead" as in "non-existence." The universe is 6.72 billion years old, and Mark Twain only lived for a very short time (75 years). Twain was not inconvenienced because of this.

Then Twain's mixing up definitions. To be dead means there had to be a living organism that came to an end of its biological life.

Also, Twain's comment (I was dead -> suffered no inconvenience), that is if he really meant it and wasn't just being whimsical and witty, seems to suggest he believed that mind exists independently of matter, mind-matter dualism.

You are taking that quote way too literally.

 

[Tanas]

I am morally superior to god and I suspect that 100% of tempers are too...

 

[CrimzonEyed]

If there was a god i would have assassinate him by now.
Religion only creates war and endless discussions.