Okay, I'm back and I'm going to reply to both people who remarked about my initial post AND I'm going to edit it, as I didn't even take the time to reread or edit it that first night and in its current form, I can understand why some people took offense to it. Sorry to one and all if I offended, I didn't mean to hurt anyone.
<!--quoteo(post=1244454:date=Jun 30 2008, 01:45 PM:name=RayorDragonFall)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RayorDragonFall @ Jun 30 2008, 01:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1244454"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1243448:date=Jun 30 2008, 07:49 AM:name=gizmo_gal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gizmo_gal @ Jun 30 2008, 07:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1243448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. I think that having your face or body pierced and decorated with jewelry/spikes in a way that startles or disrupts the majority of society is a little unkind. You can have 7 peircings in your face if you want, but do you really HAVE to wear them all, all the time? Even to a restaurant or library where people want to focus on something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wtf.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="wtf.gif" />
So what about we go back in time to racial segregation?
I don't think I need to say much more, but the way I've understood it, and I could be wrong (and if so, I'm sorry in advance), but seriously, you're saying that because they are different in a way you don't like, that they shouldn't do what they like (like wearing piercings) in public places, where you might be "put off" or distracted or something like that?
Isn't that against basic freedom? I don't think they are hurting anyone, if your distracted then... I don't know, it's not like they are purposely trying to catch your attention, right? I don't think something like a nose ring, or a tribal tattoo is that "strange" in society these days anyway.
As for me, I'm getting a double helix piercing(s) this summer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
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Okay I will admit that what I said was politically incorrect--further more, I meant to be more tactful and precise because I didn't mean to come off as bigoted (is that a word <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />?) towards the pierced and tattooed among us, I'm not. I dont particularly care what people wear on themselves but I do have reservations about certain forms of dress, but I have always kept them to myself. (whats the proper words for both, I cant keep calling them pierced and tattooed, can I?)
First point, <i>you cant compare race to something like piercings and tattoos</i>. <b><i>Period</i></b>. They are too very different things. A black person cant prevent their skin from being black or brown, any more than a white person can prevent their skin from being white/pinkish (no offense about my color descriptions) or an Asian can prevent their eyes being squinted or a Hispanic can prevent their skin from being tan/brown. I cant help being average height, any more than my cousins can help being short or my friends can help themselves being tall, we don’t have a say on the matter, we cant prevent it. You <b><i>can </i></b>prevent (as far as piercings and tattoos go) having your skin pierced and dyed, so comparing Tats and piercings to being of a particular race is like comparing chalk and cheese.
Okay to address my three points:
1. I was asked if I liked either and why or why not. I was stating the plain and simple truth, nothing more or less.
2. This is going to be terribly long winded, I can feel it, so I apologize in advance to anyone who hates long and drawn out things. I don’t approve of the vast majority of things that people do to themselves and their bodies for the sheer purpose of satisfying a vanity, I’m talking about the things that go well beyond the level of basic grooming and upkeep of personal hygiene acceptable in the various human societies.
If you were born with eyebrows, you needn’t shave them off so that you can draw them on the way you feel that they should look. Nor, do I personally, feel that it’s right to add plastic to your breast or chin or cut off a portion of your cheek so that you can feel “beautiful.” I feel that people who do these things need to get a brain and perhaps a spine so that they can get a real idea of what beauty is and not just accept what society tells them. Or, more often the case, conform to whatever it is that’s polluted their mind to make them think that beauty doesn’t already exist within their normal looking and perfectly healthy bodies, designed for them by God and given to them by nature.
If people honestly don’t feel that their average looks coupled with a good personality and unique character isn’t synonymous with the very definition of beauty, then, I pity them for they have a weak mind, in my opinion. I’m the only one I know who feels so strongly about this, as even my siblings, aunts, uncles and parents who for the most part share my view on vanity don’t take me seriously on this particular matter of altering your appearance. Personally, I don’t even like make-up, which utterly baffles one of my aunts and ruins the day of another one of my aunts. (On me, I don’t like make up at all, but on anyone else I mean in obsessive/copious amounts, of course.)
In my opinion, people should work more to nurture any spark of self esteem that they have until its enough to fuel them through their day to day lives. If you don’t have any, then get with a shrink and good set of friends and find some for yourself, you cant get self-esteem or self respect in a plastic surgeons office, as far as I can see. If people spent half as much of the time appreciating themselves the many of them waste griping/complaining about whats wrong with them or what they’d like to change about themselves they’d be better off. That’s just the way that I feel.
Of course, those with the misfortune or good fortune (as their opinion tends to vary) to be born physically disabled or malformed, they deserve the chance to physically better themselves and live as normal of a life as human science and medicine will allow.
I’m a very cautious person and if I spent half as much time actually doing things as I spend thinking about and pondering those things then I’d have probably won several awards by now. So, when I said “How will you know if you’ll still like it in 10 years,” I simply meant just that. I mean, if you’ve got a tattoo already then it really wont matter. (As far as I know, Tattoos are irreversible) I know that different people view things differently; I’m constantly fighting against being narrow –minded in my way of thinking, that’s part of why I think about things so much, I try and find a <b>pro</b> argument to counter any <b>anti</b> view/argument I have against a thing and vice versa. If I can find more good in a thing then bad, despite how I feel personally about the matter, then I mark it as something to be allowed and or encouraged, even if I’m not going to do it myself.
As far as the "10 years" remark, when my friend was toying with the idea of getting a tattoo, I asked her the same question a million times, to the point of whenever she brought up the subject in a group, she had to immediately tell me to shut up, because she knew what I was about to say.
About the “kids” remark, well, one of my favorite Uncles has a large tattoo on his chest—I haven’t ever seen the full thing because its under his shirt, but I know its there from growing up around him, and the other adults know because his wife told my aunts, and parents (My dad knew that he had it, its his brother) about it. Even before the wife and kid came into the picture my Uncle said that he wished he hadn’t gotten it, or that he could have it removed. Not only doesn’t he like what the Tattoo signifies, now that he’s grown more and matured a bit more mentally, but because his wife doesn’t like the Tattoo, it’s a major negative for her, and he has said more than once that he now wishes he hadn’t gotten it. Not solely because of his wife, but also because of his young son and daughter. He says that, at this point in his life, the only thing that he can do is to wait and advise his kids better. He says that he is now against Tattoos, in general, but especially large ones and definitely ones done for artistic purposes.
3. Well, this is going to be a little tough to sort out, as, I really and truly don’t have anything against people who chose to get and wear either, tattoos or piercings. I honestly don’t. I must admit that I feel more than a little intimidated around people in general, and the "stranger" they are the more intimidated I feel. Whether that’s right or wrong, I can’t change the way that I feel.
But, because I don’t like or feel comfortable with something that someones got, wears or partakes in doesn’t mean that I harass or even mention the thing in question to those who chose to wear, get, partake in those things.
Okay, what I’m about to say may be or become controversial, but I am only using a fact as an example, please don’t take offense if the following applies to you. I don’t, as a person, care for homosexuality, as a Muslim, in my religion it is also forbidden, as it is in many other religions. I had an Uncle who was a homosexual, and before I knew about what many people in the world was saying about the matter, I as a little kid, didn’t like the idea. Of course I didn’t confront him on the issue as I was only five or six years old, but I did asked my mom to tell him he had to stop doing that, she told me that what he was doing was his own personal choice, that it wasn’t my business even by the farthest stretch of imagination and furthermore, I wasn’t to say anything to him on the matter.
That was a long, long time ago. I’ve learned better since then and in all honesty, I don’t care that those who chose to be/or feel they were born as homosexuals are what they are. Its their business, their personal choice, their life style, and in some countries, their right to do with themselves what they will. I haven’t either the inclination or right to try and stop them or change them, but even if I did have the right to, I wouldn’t. Why? Because I honestly don’t care what they choose to do in their private time, or whom they choose to spend that time with.
As for being intimidated or nervous around people, I’m just a quiet and nervous person in real life, and lots of things scare me or leave me unsettled. I cant apologize for being human and being victim to human nature. To be fearful or distrustful of things I dont know or am unfamiliar with or unable to understand, is all apart of my humanity. Have you ever noticed how the majority of children need to be taught acceptance of others? Because even without help from their parents or the media, they can be bigoted towards certain people for various things. Well, yeah, I was the same way but I picked up Acceptance and Understanding on my own just as much as my parents taught it to me, it’s a part of growing up I guess.
I'm Muslim, I wear a head scarf and middle eastern garb, very much by personal choice, pretty much wherever I go and I've yet to run into the rude prude (lol, that rhymes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />) who doesn't dislike and misjudge me almost instantaneously based on my appearance and more importantly, what it signifies in their eyes. (Signifies, eyes…
, Watch out Tinyt, I maybe discovering some latent poetic talent here.). Many of those rude prudes (Hmm…I'm on a roll,<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />--sorry, back to being serious now) feels compelled to preach to me the evil of me and my people and offer me salvation in the arms or shadow of {Insert their choice of God/Religion Here}.
I’ve been pelted with rocks on playgrounds by kids, and confronted and mocked in the store/public by adults. I’ve been called names and made fun of by two year olds and seventy eight year olds alike, simply because of what I am and how I dress. I don’t inflict or condone the same happening to other people, I never have. I never will, and I’d rather spank and lecture them continuously than allow them to mistreat other people the way that I’ve been mistreated.
As for odd-bodily adornments, well as a kid, I wore lots of stuff that most people--especially my parents <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />, who dont have very good senses of humor--like my parents--dont really have it in them to appreciate.
I wore goggles on my face everyday for two summers in a row, colanders/strainers and rubber bands, were fun. I used Crayola markers to maintain several cartoon tattoos/drawings on my arms and right leg for a month until the markers ran out, I wore a towel cape, rubber cleaning gloves, and undershorts on my head too as a child. I did all this stuff on my own, without influence from any form of media or group of peers. I was the only one among my peers who used to do this sort of stuff. So I understand about being different or wanting to exhibit your more creative/imaginative side.
I even drug around a large "pet" rock tied to a string for several, several months until these kids took Rocky the Rock and used his "leash" to throw him into a tree where I couldn't reach. When I was a lot younger, I used to take out some of the braids in the center of my head and try to make a Mohawk in my head but I could never get it to stand straight enough. (Thanks Toni for the pointers there, I'll give it a try in a couple of days <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />). For the most part, my parents allowed me to carry on as I wished, but if I wanted to go to the park or the store, then the goggles, paint, yellow rubber gloves and undershorts had to come off or be worn in a way that didn't cause a spectacle. As they say, there is a time and a place for everything.
Thats what I meant about piercings and chains on your face, isn’t there a time and place for those things? Maybe, maybe not, but the majority of society tends to believe that there is indeed a time and place for such things, and if such things happen to be permanent, then well then, they cant be properly confined to their place and time. Thus, I'm Anti-Tattoo.
Tattoos are still rather taboo in the business world. Their not forbidden, but they aren't encouraged either. As for regretting them later but being able to appreciate them for they serve as markers for what you once were, thats fine, but is it the most logical choice for living in the world?
Rehabilitated addicts have to accept that dark phase of their live and accept it, they made mistakes, they got in over their heads and they count themselves lucky that they got out. They generally view that period of their life as something of a hard lesson learned the hardest way possible, if they mention it, then its only as a warning or encouragement to someone else, I've yet to come across the rehabilitated addict who is proud enough of their past to share it with everyone and everywhere they go for kicks. But I've not met many people or ventured into many places, so hey, they could be out there.
The reason why I specifically mentioned the library and restaurant as places where it is particularly disturbings is because of the specific incidents I had in those places.
<!--QuoteBegin-True Story from my life+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(True Story from my life)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A guy and a girl wearing piercings and chains in their face, were standing in the library, I was actually reading the guys anime shirt to begin with when I saw his face and--I know its rude to stare, but I stared at him--partly because I was counting his balls and spikes and partly because, well, come on people he had a chain hanging from ear to ear and looped through his nose or something--anyway, he saw me looking at him and wanted to know what the hell I was looking at, instead of answering him I started stacking the books I'd set on the table so that I could hightail it, then he came over to the table and asked me again what I was looking at, he had lots of piercings and chains and I got scared of him--not solely because of their presence but I assure you they had a part in it. He talked a good bit of trash to me, about me staring at him when I had a raggedy towel on my head and was wearing clothes that hadn't been in fashion "Since Jesus was hung"--his words, not mine. While his girlfriend had a good time with my discomfort. I, of course, hightailed it at the first possible moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-As for the mention of restaurants+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(As for the mention of restaurants)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There was a guy in the food court once, with a rainbow Mohawk-type hair style who saw my brothers looking at him, and barked at them, viciously several times, then shouted at them to, **** off, before storming away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Admittedly, both of those people’s problems where their attitudes, not their appearance, but their appearance is what caused me or my brothers to look at them, and our staring/looking is what got them all heated up. Yet, human nature causes people to look at something new, strange or weird, so if you want to dress strangely, then act like you know your invoking peoples curiosity or distrust. Yes, I know that it is more a matter of how you act than how you look, but if you dress like a fiend and actually act like a fiend then guess what—people aren’t going to like or trust people who dress like fiends.
But for me, it is more than the way that piercings and or tattoos look, being a Needlephobe myself, I mostly cringe when I see people with several piercings and large tattoos because I'm forcibly reminded of a thing that I fear greatly. So, yeah, I have to say that I am put off by any one person with several piercings and tattoos, but if I was an arachnophobic, I'd cringe and be put off by anyone choosing to wear realistic looking Spider ornaments or carry real spiders around with them out in the open. I’ve never asked anyone to remove their balls, spikes and earrings, because anyone who’d go through the trouble of acquiring such things obviously find some gratification in wearing them, or associate that thing with something they cherish, just like people who wear large crosses on even larger chains, or rings engraved with the name of God on them.
I'm the only girl in my family--except for a six and one year old--who doesn't have her ears pierced--why? Because I'm afraid of needles. Fortunately for me, my sisters, mom and aunts dont wear earrings that often. I really don’t like the idea of being poked and jabbed and getting nerveless in my hands several times a day wouldn’t really be helpful either. Of course hearing grisly details of an injury or medical procedure also causes me to get weak-kneed and my hands to go nerveless for several moments. As do violent thunderstorms or continuously loud music, so Tattoos and out-there piercings aren’t the only thing on my <u>List Of Things That I Would Like To Do Without.</u>
I stated in the beginning that I'm very afraid of needles. And I meant that, I don't faint but I do get very nerveless and often may feel queasy around exposed needles. When I see a person sporting several piercings and tattoos, then I see more of the needles that caused them than I do the art work/jewelry. But in particular, both of those references were based on my actual life experiences, of punks/people with several tattoos.
I cant eat around a person who’s got spikes in their ears and balls in their faces, I just cant. Does that mean I think they shouldn’t be allowed in restaurants? No, I don’t. But I’d appreciate it if they would remove some of those spikes and balls before coming in, but I’d never ask them to do such, as they are probably very much aware of the fact that many people don’t like tattoos or facial piercings outside of the generally accepted ears and or nose. I am equally disturbed by people who eat messily and noisily, or bring in ill-behaved children, and if I had to choose between eating in the room with KISS and all their wannabe fans—KISS, that’s the band with painted face and spikes, right? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />--or the contestants of “Super Nanny” then, guess what? I’d leave. I’d let them have at each other but I’d be rooting for the KISS and their fans. As the kids are downright disgusting on their own and it’s their parents fault for not teaching them better.
In conclusion of this essay response, I apologize, profusely if I offended someone with my earlier remarks, I was tired but also, I was tactless in how I stated things. I’ve searched my mind for three whole minutes and I find that there isn’t really an excuse for that as the simple solution was to keep my fingers off the keyboard and hit the “back” button on my browser, as that is the technological equivalent of keeping my mouth shut. Instead, Gizmo_gal did what she does best, opened her mouth wide and shoved her foot down her own throat <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />. Crow, no matter how finely prepared, is a tough bite to swallow.
Now then…lets see, Toni replied also, so off to find his post and respond.
EDIT: I think that I address the things mentioned by both Toni and Rayor. This formatting is horrible, so I will be updating with edits to make it more readable over the next couple of minutes. Also, I may be changing this as I had to get up for extended periods of time and come back, pick up my thoughts and keep writing so this may be a bit redundant.
