opinions on teaching about lgbtq+ in school

[Bunjolio]

No one has ever been born in the wrong body. Your body is your own, and you should learn to not hate it, if not love it.

It is impossible to misgender anyone. It IS possible to accurately gender someone.

I find it lacking in decency to force others to agree with you, based on your feelings.

If they tried to pass a law in the United States that would prohibit adults from getting "gender-affirming therapy", I would fight that tooth-and-nail. I would be right there in a rainbow shirt sucking on a rainbow Push Pop with a huge rainbow dildo that I was swinging around like a morning star about to go to battle.

Right there witcha, homie. When it comes to law and legislation, I am 100% your ally.

When it comes to PERSONAL action and decision and thought, though? I retain my right to liberty, and no one is going to tell me how to think. I WILL protect you and fight for you, for your liberty and bodily autonomy, to the death. All day. No question.

But you aren't going to try to force me to call a man a woman. Period. If you get to choose, so do I.

THAT. IS. FAIR.

if i wanted to go by they/them, would you refer to me as such? And some people ARE born in the wrong body, gender dysphoria is a thing.

 

[WalterSlovotsky]

if i wanted to go by they/them, would you refer to me as such? And some people ARE born in the wrong body, gender dysphoria is a thing.

No. I would still call you "he/him", because you are not multiple people.

Gender dysphoria IS a severe mental illness. No question. If you feel that strongly that your penis is offensive to you, yeah, that's serious. And I wish for you to find the help you need. I'll help in any way I can to prevent you from mutilating your body, when there IS treatment available that won't harm you.

But I won't LIE to you, and using false pronouns is a lie. No.

I would similarly not tell a person who was suffering from schizophrenia that the radio really IS talking to him and beaming signals from Martians to his brain, telling him to do bad stuff to other people. You do not enable mental illness. You treat it.

Just because a person suffering from a mental illness FEELS and BELIEVES that something is true, doesn't make it true. This is why there are healthy people to help folks like that, to deal with or ameliorate the side effects of their mental disease.

 

[Bunjolio]

No. I would still call you "he/him", because you are not multiple people.

Gender dysphoria IS a severe mental illness. No question. If you feel that strongly that your penis is offensive to you, yeah, that's serious. And I wish for you to find the help you need. I'll help in any way I can.

But I won't LIE to you, and using false pronouns is a lie. No.

I would similarly not tell a person who was suffering from schizophrenia that the radio really IS talking to him and beaming signals from Martians to his brain, telling him to do bad stuff to other people. You do not enable mental illness. You treat it.

What about non binary people? What about genderfluid people?

 

[WalterSlovotsky]

What about non binary people? What about genderfluid people?

I hate to keep repeating myself, but neither of those terms mean ANYTHING if we can't come to agreement on what defines a male or a female. How can you be "gender-fluid" if you can't define, in concrete terms, what makes a man or a woman, or what makes them distinct from the other?

Also, the word "binary" refers to a structure comprising of two objects. Two. Not 56. So, anyone who believes in being "non-binary" is, logically, agreeing that there are only two genders. Can't be "binary" without referring to TWO. Not 56. Not hundreds. Not even a dozen. Two.

It's all pointless until we start from a basis of common understanding and agreement. So, we need SOLID, IMMUTABLE terms to define "man" and "woman", and to demonstrate why they are different.

Until then, this is all a pointless discussion with no end. Do you see what I am saying?

 

[mikefor20]

if i wanted to go by they/them, would you refer to me as such? And some people ARE born in the wrong body, gender dysphoria is a thing.

There's those English issues again. They and them are plural pronouns.
You are one person. I speak to people not personalities. I opt out of that 100%

 

[WalterSlovotsky]

I think we have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt during this discussion that LGBIA education MUST be provided to children.

The fact that we have this many people who still can't actually hammer down a single point that we agree on shows how sad this world is. We can't even agree on what a man or a woman is, but we want kids in school to figure this out?

I weep for the future.

 

[mikefor20]

And better English classes.

 

[Bunjolio]

I think we have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt during this discussion that LGBIA education MUST be provided to children.

The fact that we have this many people who still can't actually hammer down a single point that we agree on shows how sad this world is. We can't even agree on what a man or a woman is, but we want kids in school to figure this out?

I weep for the future.

you mean LGBTQIA+.

Post automatically merged: Sep 21, 2023

There's those English issues again. They and them are plural pronouns.
You are one person. I speak to people not personalities. I opt out of that 100%

they and them can be used as pronouns for one person

 

[WalterSlovotsky]

I just wish we could build a base of common agreement and consensus, backed by science, that we can all get along with, so the actual discussion can even begin. In this forum and throughout America, and the rest of the world.

We're not making any progress the way we are going about this. Everyone's feelings are the only things that seem to matter, and that solves nothing.

you mean LGBTQIA+.

No, I said what I meant.

 

[Bunjolio]

I just wish we could build a base of common agreement and consensus, backed by science, that we can all get along with, so the actual discussion can even begin. In this forum and throughout America, and the rest of the world.

We're not making any progress the way we are going about this. Everyone's feelings are the only things that seem to matter, and that solves nothing.

what would you do if you had a child and they came out to you as trans?

 

[mikefor20]

they and them can be used as pronouns for one person

No dude. That's not english.

 

[Bunjolio]

No dude. That's not english.

English as a language can change overtime

 

[WalterSlovotsky]

what would you do if you had a child and they came out to you as trans?

I would feel that I had failed entirely as a father, and my first instinct would be that they were influenced by social media and the internet. I would feel that they were jumping on the bandwagon like so many others, and that it was a cry for help and attention.

Seriously. You asked, so I am giving you a 100% honest answer.

I would immediately schedule counseling for their gender dysphoria, and help them in any way that I could to show them that cutting off their genitals won't make them the opposite gender, but that I would love them no matter what they chose to do as an adult.

I would never use their preferred pronouns, and wouldn't call them by any other name than the one I gave them unless they legally changed it. I would let them know that their father will always be by his or her side, no matter what they chose to do. It's their life, their body, their say. They would receive the same liberty I have been screaming for this entire time.

My feelings wouldn't matter. Only theirs would, when it comes to what they wanted to do with their body. They would always have safe harbor in my home, and a family who would never reject them for their feelings. But I would never, ever, ever, ever, EVER lie to them, or play along with any fantasy of theirs. Lying is not in my character.

 

[Xzi]

Kids are usually pretty quick to pick up on this stuff through socialization alone, but there's nothing wrong with bringing it up in social studies classes either. Bigotry and biases aren't genetic, they're learned behaviors. Best to instill them with a broadened worldview early on.

 

[Bunjolio]

I would feel that I had failed entirely as a father. Seriously. I would immediately schedule counseling for their gender dysphoria, and help them in any way that I could to show them that cutting off their genitals won't make them the opposite gender, but that I would love them no matter what they chose to do as an adult.

I would never use their preferred pronouns, and wouldn't call them by any other name than the one I gave them unless they legally changed it. I would let them know that their father will always be by his or her side, no matter what they chose to do. It's their life, their body, their say. They would receive the same liberty I have been screaming for this entire time.

My feelings wouldn't matter. Only theirs would, when it comes to what they wanted to do with their body. They would always have safe harbor in my home, and a family who would never reject them for their feelings.

so you would be a terrible fucking human? your kid would probably leave you. Shame on you. Not even supporting your own child. Terrible fucking person.

 

[mikefor20]

English as a language can change overtime

Slang. It's just slang.

Kids are usually pretty quick to pick up on this stuff through socialization alone, but there's nothing wrong with bringing it up in social studies classes either. Bigotry and biases aren't genetic, they're learned behaviors. Best to instill them with a broadened worldview early on.

How early?

 

[WalterSlovotsky]

so you would be a terrible fucking human? your kid would probably leave you. Shame on you. Not even supporting your own child. Terrible fucking person.

Nothing I said there suggests I wouldn't support my child. Lying to your kid is not supporting him or her. Enabling their mental illness is not support.

 

[omgcat]

There's those English issues again. They and them are plural pronouns.
You are one person. I speak to people not personalities. I opt out of that 100%

Dude they/them has been used as a singular for like 600+ years. Stop being braindead.

They with a singular antecedent goes back to the Middle English of the 14th century[35][36] (slightly younger than they with a plural antecedent, which was borrowed from Old Norse in the 13th century),[37] and has remained in use for centuries in spite of its proscription by traditional grammarians beginning in the mid 18th century.[38][39]

Informal spoken English exhibits universal use of the singular they. An examination by Jürgen Gerner of the British National Corpus published in 1998 found that British speakers, regardless of social status, age, sex, or region, used the singular they more often than the gender-neutral he or other options.[40]

 

[Bunjolio]

Nothing I said there suggests I wouldn't support my child. Lying to your kid is not supporting him or her. Enabling their mental illness is not support.

being transgender isnt a mental illness.

 

[WalterSlovotsky]

being transgender isnt a mental illness.

Correct. It is a socially-manufactured construct.

Gender dysphoria is a thing, to quote YOU, sir, verbatim. And that would be the issue that I, as a good father, would be there to help them with.