Was brexit good or bad for the UK?

[Dark_Ansem]

Media is generally massively pro-Europe so of course they're gonna stress the sort term inconveniences of Brexit.

But History will tell that in the long term, Brexit was UK's best move of the century.

For the record, Europe is a neoliberal dictatorship hidden behind mock democracies. The only way nations can get some sovereignty back is by leaving this mess.

Are you off your meds?

Media is massively pro Europe? Do you get kicks from lying? There are next to zero pro Europe media in the UK because they're terrified of upsetting the tories and the snowflakes.

Europe a neoliberali dictatorship lmao you sure you're not talking about the UK? You know, the place consecrated to neoliberalism.

"Long term" lmao you're off your rocker. What is long term? 300 years?

You seem to be enjoying a little rage out there so not sure what to pick at there which was aiming to be a point and what was just a symptom of your exasperation.

Is it not the truth however?

Equally what is harms and might it instead be a price willing to be paid for something more ephemeral? Likewise was it a strategical fuck up for them (concept itself never going to work) or a tactical one (assumed a vaguely competent negotiator would go in there with a plan)? If it was tactical (for them) then is this short term pain for long term gain?

Isn't reality showing what it is already by now? If it were a massive success, others would be imitating it. It's not happening. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[FAST6191]

What is reality showing and what can directly and easily be laid at the feet of it, much less for the morons you are casting as the swing voters.

Inflation is happening everywhere, EU, US, Japan... If you are economically literate you look at money printing, whether trickle down (hah) from the US or still believing your own monetary policy has some great effect. If you believe the news then it is either the filthy oil companies, one Mr Putin (even if it is a Chinese proxy war and secondary effects/more of a third world issue) or general corporate greed. You might even still have a few that switched off and are blaming kung flu still.
Economic recession, possibly even going for a nice depression, was about due anyway and not like the EU has done much to lessen the effects there.

Dem fereigners are being a drain regardless, though I suppose if you are escaping the unpardonable shithole that is France (I would say it is burning but that is the natural state it seems) you might actually be a genuine refugee.

As far as imitating it. Many places I look in Europe, be it places that matter or places that are also technically in the mix do seem to be moving in a more nationalist/country first direction -- Sweden, Germany, Italy, Netherlands in some regards... elections there are a fun one, France was as well and no idea what will go for next go around (these protests are bigger than average but not sure it is a nationalist thing, though I am sure they will capitalise upon it).

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Dem fereigners are being a drain regardless, though I suppose if you are escaping the unpardonable shithole that is France (I would say it is burning but that is the natural state it seems) you might actually be a genuine refugee.

Not in the UK. Eu nationals were the ONLY category putting in the system more money than what they were draining.

Inflation is happening everywhere, EU, US, Japan... If you are economically literate you look at money printing, whether trickle down (hah) from the US or still believing your own monetary policy has some great effect. If you believe the news then it is either the filthy oil companies, one Mr Putin (even if it is a Chinese proxy war and secondary effects/more of a third world issue) or general corporate greed. You might even still have a few that switched off and are blaming kung flu still.
Economic recession, possibly even going for a nice depression, was about due anyway and not like the EU has done much to lessen the effects there.

Except that in UK it is worse than anywhere else. Maybe not for you, but your anecdotal experience doesn't account for the entirety of the UK, does it?

Also, for the avoidance of doubt: trickle down is a lie and doesn't work.

 

[Ligeia]

Are you off your meds?

Media is massively pro Europe? Do you get kicks from lying? There are next to zero pro Europe media in the UK because they're terrified of upsetting the tories and the snowflakes.

Europe a neoliberali dictatorship lmao you sure you're not talking about the UK? You know, the place consecrated to neoliberalism.

"Long term" lmao you're off your rocker. What is long term? 300 years?

I see you're adamant on pushing pro-Europe propaganda by relying on personal attacks unleashed at anyone who doesn't share your views. It only shows how clueless you are on the whole subject. Bye kiddo. Ignored.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

I see you're adamant on pushing pro-Europe propaganda by relying on personal attacks unleashed at anyone who doesn't share your views. It only shows how clueless you are on the whole subject. Bye kiddo. Ignored.

Lol the usual response of the ImBrexile caught in the act of LYING (so breathing, basically).

 

[FAST6191]

Assuming we go with price of goods as inflation (the inflation = money supply bit is not without its merits) then if we believe the cooked core PCE (because food, especially if doing the non equivalent comparisons* like they like to do, and fuel are trifling concerns for the average man on the street) for American numbers and similar for EU vs practical realities on the ground in the UK (also much like people can't calculate compound percentage interest rates in their head then inflation usually being given as year on year/month on month might well be more accurate than comparing remembered pre kung flu price of milk, eggs and potatoes in the supermarket). Otherwise can't see it being truly notably worse in the UK. I am equally not sure where my anecdotal experience was even mentioned in my earlier post/quoted bit, let alone put forward as authoritative.

*for those unaware one of the bigger controversies in CPI measurement happened not so very long ago when rather than like for like goods a substitute of the cheapo supermarket own brand was allowed, and in some cases meat is meat so cheapo chicken when before the baseline might have been steak. It might well be reflective of trends in actual purchasing when money gets tight but as a statistical measure then dubious in the extreme.

Re trickle down. For the sake of clarification I was using it more as a phrase than the economics term (I would agree it is a concept almost as useless as centralised pricing). In this case as dollars are the trade currency of the world as well as oil (BRICS being something of a pipe dream, China-Russia a political stunt for now and unless things go very right for China will be for a while longer) then if the US screws up (and oh boy did they) then everybody else is basically along for the ride.

dem fereigners was more if we are imagining the Baz down the pub swing voter (or his I remember the empire grandfather) then he probably still sees hotels being taken over for "asylum" seekers (one of the things the EU did actually foist upon us, as opposed to Hans from Amsterdam here to be an engineer and being a net contributor/probably more than some of the feckless natives) which probably matches with the general sentiments of "so all the foreigners are going to go" some particularly smart individuals the news managed to find upon the vote passing/articles being triggered. UK Navy hardly being deployed with all those nice guns matching the angle of Baz's erection upon seeing the footage of boats being blown out of the water, and what do slip the net being hunted down like dogs (compared to an imagined red carpet treatment).

 

[Dark_Ansem]

(one of the things the EU did actually foist upon us, as opposed to Hans from Amsterdam here to be an engineer and being a net contributor/probably more than some of the feckless natives)

This is incorrect. The policy of hosting asylum seekers in hotels can be dated as far as 1998 to the white paper "Fairer, Faster and Firmer" which was followed by the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999. Neither depending on any EU legislation piece whatsoever.

 

[pustal]

To enrich the Tories and the ImBrexiles. Off the skin of commoners.



It killed off anti EU sentiment and is bringing a significant amount of humble pie to a nation that for too long thought itself special and was treated as such.

Did it? Because the tribalist alt right is still on the rise. In my country the all-right just became the third strongest political force. You can see the increased level of organization in countries like Germany and in the actions of the last few weeks. Le Pen in France had 41.45% on the runoff. Etc. Hungary and Poland are what they've become. If e anything, Brexit created a precedent and hope for these forces. If happen in Britain first because of years of media and political scapegoating and manipulation, but it didn't cut out the disease.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Did it? Because the tribalist alt right is still on the rise. In my country the all-right just became the third strongest political force. You can see the increased level of organization in countries like Germany and in the actions of the last few weeks. Le Pen in France had 41.45% on the runoff. Etc. Hungary and Poland are what they've become. If e anything, Brexit created a precedent and hope for these forces. If happen in Britain first because of years of media and political scapegoating and manipulation, but it didn't cut out the disease.

None of them campaigning to leave the EU are they. Didnt cute the disease of alt right tribalism, but sadly only their failure in power can do that. The real issue is how much damage do they need to do before that happens.

 

[pustal]

None of them campaigning to leave the EU are they. Didnt cute the disease of alt right tribalism, but sadly only their failure in power can do that. The real issue is how much damage do they need to do before that happens.

They self-admittedly want to infiltrate the EU government bodies to handicap the EU.



Ol' Nige Farage had that tactic for a decade.

 

[mrdude]

They self-admittedly want to infiltrate the EU government bodies to handicap the EU.

If you want to change an organisation like the EU that's rotten to the core you firstly need to be in it to change it for the better. You wouldn't be able to do it from the outside, or unless something major happened such as ww3 or something of that magnitude. The facts are that people are getting pissed with the corruption, the ideology and the way the the EU is destroying their lives and livelihood so they are making their voices heard at the ballot box and voting in whoever they think will be able to change the stinking system.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

They self-admittedly want to infiltrate the EU government bodies to handicap the EU.



Ol' Nige Farage had that tactic for a decade.

Sadly this is a real possibility but we shall see if EU laws are able to limit this.

Farage always failed tho. Only the English were gullible enough to trust him.

 

[pustal]

If you want to change an organisation like the EU that's rotten to the core you firstly need to be in it to change it for the better. You wouldn't be able to do it from the outside, or unless something major happened such as ww3 or something of that magnitude. The facts are that people are getting pissed with the corruption, the ideology and the way the the EU is destroying their lives and livelihood so they are making their voices heard at the ballot box and voting in whoever they think will be able to change the stinking system.

First they don't want to change it for the better, they want to undermine it, they want to get rig of common regulations and oversight so they can do what they want. They are dumping sewage in the rivers in the UK now to save costs, that sure sounds like a live improvement.

Secondly, even if there is corruption at the EU level, these people are corrupt far beyond. They are taking Putin's money just for starters. They are financing anti-information campaigns. They are laughably nepotistic and they Influence peddle like crazy. Our party here even started by forging documents and signatures. It's a parody.

Finally, the EU is what keeping a lot of crap from being much worse than it is. From food safety to labor and economical exploitation. The ECB bailed countries from the brink of catastrophe, including my own.

Destroying the EU will only benefit the already rich that have something in place that would benefit from deregulating, or even from creating more tax havens, and the autocrats that want power from chaos and despair like these looneys.

Defending solving corruption with endless more corruption and trying to improve things by leveling to the ground and creating something worse is laughable. Or would be if it wasn't a serious threat.

Sadly this is a real possibility but we shall see if EU laws are able to limit this.

Farage always failed tho. Only the English were gullible enough to trust him.

Farage didn't have much support in the EU parliament. But they getting increasingly organized. Another article about it.

 

[xBleedingSoulx]

All I know is that before Brexit I could afford to live with money left over, now I'm in negative income and can only afford to live by breaking into my savings.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

All I know is that before Brexit I could afford to live with money left over, now I'm in negative income and can only afford to live by breaking into my savings.

Thats because you aren't BELIEVING HARD ENOUGH in the bs.

Secondly, even if there is corruption at the EU level, these people are corrupt far beyond. They are taking Putin's money just for starters. They are financing anti-information campaigns. They are laughably nepotistic and they Influence peddle like crazy. Our party here even started by forging documents and signatures. It's a parody.

Isn't it funny that someone as deranged as mrdude harping about "unbelievably corrupt EU" is completely ignoring that UK has been wracked by a series of scandals virtually unheard of at EU level? In the history of everything?

 

[mrdude]

All I know is that before Brexit I could afford to live with money left over, now I'm in negative income and can only afford to live by breaking into my savings.

That's a world thing though and nothing to do with Brexit if you would care to educate yourself you would know this already. When you have USA printing trillions of dollars it devalues everything including your money. When you stop oil exploration and tax the hell out the companies that find it well fuel prices increase. When you have a global pandemic and then then inflation on food prices, goods etc but the wages don't keep up - well your money is worth less. When you have a geen agenda that raises the cost of fuel - everything costs more to produce so prices increase. Again, this is not Brexit related. Next you will be claiming that the Earthquakes that hit Turkey not so long ago was the fault of Brexit, becuase you need to find stuff to blame on Brexit.

The world is in the state it's in just now through poor leadership, feckless politicians, company greed. You're skint because your job sucks and your wages haven't been kept in line with rampant inflation (your cost of living).

 

[Dark_Ansem]

[Cope and lies and deflection in order to avoid reality]

Yeah we know how you "think", you well known homophobe and bully, who proudly boasts having beaten up other kids in school and flaunting your (fictitious?) history of violence.

Someone said in this thread "deranged supporters of Brexit", probably talking about you.

@xBleedingSoulx notice how he had not even a pretence of empathy for you but was so quick to blame everything except the real reason. Who are you gonna believe, the people who study these things for a living or that guy who sounds deranged at every turn and displays Dunning-kruger with every post?

 

[FAST6191]

This is incorrect. The policy of hosting asylum seekers in hotels can be dated as far as 1998 to the white paper "Fairer, Faster and Firmer" which was followed by the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999. Neither depending on any EU legislation piece whatsoever.

The EU mandated that members share the load, when if you are fleeing war torn wherever-istan then probably about the time you hit Turkey, Bulgaria or Greece, and definitely Italy, certainly a beach in northern France you are no longer in fear for your life.
Housing them in hotels might pre date that but that is besides the point.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

The EU mandated that members share the load, when if you are fleeing war torn wherever-istan then probably about the time you hit Turkey, Bulgaria or Greece, and definitely Italy, certainly a beach in northern France you are no longer in fear for your life.
Housing them in hotels might pre date that but that is besides the point.

It's really not beside the point. And, what exactly is wrong with sharing the duty? One of the first things you learn in school, and life, is that sharing an onerous task makes it less onerous and easier to complete.

 

[FAST6191]

It's really not beside the point. And, what exactly is wrong with sharing the duty? One of the first things you learn in school, and life, is that sharing an onerous task makes it less onerous and easier to complete.

If the hypothetical UK out of the EU would only have to worry about those coming in by plane or official boat, maybe crashed spacecraft as well, or maybe embassy, then that would be seen as a benefit/good to some, which is what I thought we were contemplating in this.