Are you American? Are you circumcized? Then you NEED to watch this

[FGFlann]

Quibbling over terms is silly. It doesn't change what's happening and is only going to derail the thread. It can both easily fit the definition of mutilation without diminishing other forms of mutilation and be described as circumcision without any loss of understanding as to what the procedure involves.

 

[SG854]

Honestly I couldn't help but tune you out after this point, this much hyperbole leads to a "boy who cried wolf" situation. Same deal with comput3rus3r repeatedly calling circumcision "mutilation," which just belittles real genital mutilation in the world.

Now your doing selective reading using a ridiculous point to try to get the upper hand in the argument.

Whether the point you call it mutilation or not, he said both FGM and Male Circumcision are human rights violations and should be outlawed no matter severity. Even if someone thinks it isn't on par with FGM he still believes its mutilation regardless. There are good points why we shouldn't circumcise and your ignoring all those points just because he said the word "mutilation" which you don't agree with on. This is a logical fallacy to dismiss all else he said based on this and your not thinking very rational about this.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Quibbling over terms is silly. It doesn't change what's happening and is only going to derail the thread. It can both easily fit the definition of mutilation without diminishing other forms of mutilation and be described as circumcision without any loss of understanding as to what the procedure involves.

It's not "what's happening" but "what has been happening for millennia" (or centuries if you only consider America).
I don't see why everybody takes this so to heart.
It is an American problem (if it is even a problem to begin with) and nothing important for others to care about IMHO, it's not like they will go circumcising -your- children, I mean they won't even make you circumcise your children if you happen to be American.
Also, don't worry, Americans won't become extinct (at least not due to male circumcision), the birth rate is big enough and the couple in a million of badly cut to the point of uselessness penises won't make the country disappear.

 

[brickmii82]

You didn't watch the video.

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your stance is understandable given the fact that it's hard to come to terms with the fact that you were sexually assaulted in the worst way as a baby. So it's way easier to dismiss it so you can just go on with your life not thinking about it.

There’s nothing to come to terms with. People did what they thought was right and I don’t remember any of it. Imo most of this is manufactured outrage.

 

[RHOPKINS13]

Honestly I couldn't help but tune you out after this point, this much hyperbole leads to a "boy who cried wolf" situation. Same deal with comput3rus3r repeatedly calling circumcision "mutilation," which just belittles real genital mutilation in the world.

Bullshit. Where do you see a hyperbole in my post?

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There’s nothing to come to terms with. People did what they thought was right and I don’t remember any of it. Imo most of this is manufactured outrage.

Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean it's ok. If you were raped as a baby, I doubt you would just shrug it off as "I don't remember any of it".

 

[Xzi]

Now your doing selective reading using a ridiculous point to try to get the upper hand in the argument.

Whether the point you call it mutilation or not, he said both FGM and Male Circumcision are human rights violations and should be outlawed no matter severity. Even if someone thinks it isn't on par with FGM he still believes its mutilation regardless. There are good points why we shouldn't circumcise and your ignoring all those points just because he said the word "mutilation" which you don't agree with on. This is a logical fallacy to dismiss all else he said based on this and your not thinking very rational about this.

Claims made with no evidence are just as easily dismissed with no evidence. For the sake of argument I'm willing to believe that circumcision can decrease sensitivity, even despite no empirical evidence of that either, but we're getting to the point of absurdity when people are claiming brain damage, AIDS, and death as consequences of circumcision. Unless you're getting your baby circumcised in a back alley by Roy Moore, none of this is even remotely possible.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean it's ok. If you were raped as a baby, I doubt you would just shrug it off as "I don't remember any of it".

Sure you won't either remember if you were ran over by a truck that you miraculously survived albeit it left you paraplegic.
And I am saying this because a cirumcision, being raped and being ran over by a truck are totally the same thing or in the same level! /s

 

[FGFlann]

It's not "what's happening" but "what has been happening for millennia" (or centuries if you only consider America).
I don't see why everybody takes this so to heart.
It is an American problem (if it is even a problem to begin with) and nothing important for others to care about IMHO, it's not like they will go circumcising -your- children, I mean they won't even make you circumcise your children if you happen to be American.
Also, don't worry, Americans won't become extinct (at least not due to male circumcision), the birth rate is big enough and the couple in a million of badly cut to the point of uselessness penises won't make the country disappear.

With respect, regardless of if you understand it or not, people are going to care and they are going to want to discuss it and act for or against it as is their want. The length of time it has been happening is an irrelevancy.

 

[sarkwalvein]

With respect, regardless of if you understand it or not, people are going to care and they are going to want to discuss it and act for or against it as is their want. The length of time it has been happening is an irrelevancy.

It is totally relevant when part of the narrative is to "casually" let it slide as if it were some kind of "emergency" happening "right now".
That said, I also find it amusing how much emotion people put into it when they discuss it with more passion than motive, regardless they not having a clue what they are talking about.
I guess it would be worthy of getting some pop-corn, but to be honest the topic is so dull and the discussion so lacking that it would be more entertaining to watch cars passing by through the window.

 

[SG854]

Claims made with no evidence are just as easily dismissed with no evidence. For the sake of argument I'm willing to believe that circumcision can decrease sensitivity, even despite no empirical evidence of that either, but we're getting to the point of absurdity when people are claiming brain damage, AIDS, and death as consequences of circumcision. Unless you're getting your baby circumcised in a back alley by Roy Moore, none of this is even remotely possible.

Only in the U.S. and Israel they think it's good to cut off foreskin. If there were no negative consequences or if it provides these huge health benefits as some claim then why isn't this practiced all around the world? Something this beneficial would have been adopted by everyone one right, especially all the industrialized nations.

The Dutch thinks its a human rights violation. Germany says there is no medical reason for cutting it off. Australia and New Zealand criticize the U.S. findings as incompetent and an embarrassment to the AAP. Big claims by two countries practically making fun of the U.S.

And pretty much every other country in the world say that the AAP findings which are the articles you constantly site and talk about used flawed methodology and is scientific nonsense. Why does practically every other country in the world see it as a human rights violation but U.S. doesn't. Is the whole world wrong and U.S. is right?

And there is evidence that the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis.

 

[RHOPKINS13]

Claims made with no evidence are just as easily dismissed with no evidence. For the sake of argument I'm willing to believe that circumcision can decrease sensitivity, even despite no empirical evidence of that either, but we're getting to the point of absurdity when people are claiming brain damage, AIDS, and death as consequences of circumcision. Unless you're getting your baby circumcised in a back alley by Roy Moore, none of this is even remotely possible.

Any of these can be verified with a simple Google search.

Herpes Contracted During Brit Milah:
June 2012 - http://healthland.time.com/2012/06/...abies-contracted-herpes-through-circumcision/
June 2016 - https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Two-recent-cases-herpes-in-babies-following-Brit-Milah-455759

Brain Damage:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage
http://circumcision.org/circumcision-permanently-alters-the-brain/

Unfortunately, most deaths from circumcision are recorded as due to stroke or excessive bleeding rather than circumcision, so it's hard to quantify that number. But they do happen all the time, even from circumcisions done in hospitals. A 2010 study by Dan Bollinger is commonly quoted, that estimates an average of 117 babies die every year in the United States due to circumcision.

 

[FGFlann]

It is totally relevant when part of the narrative is to "casually" let it slide as if it were some kind of "emergency" happening "right now".
That said, I also find it amusing how much emotion people put into it when they discuss it with more passion than motive, regardless they not having a clue what they are talking about.
I guess it would be worthy of getting some pop-corn, but to be honest the topic is so dull and the discussion so lacking that it would be more entertaining to watch cars passing by through the window.

Is it not something that is happening right now? Why should the practice's longevity have any bearing on how people living now view it? All societies change in this manner. Old traditions are discarded when they become unpalatable to the people, but in order for that to occur people have to raise their voices against it.
As far as being amused by people not knowing what they're talking about goes, I guess I can agree to an extent? But that's perfectly normal. Being passionate about something, making mistakes and learning from them is just another part of growth.
Having nothing to talk about because we should only let the experts speak would make for a very boring social life.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Is it not something that is happening right now? Why should the practice's longevity have any bearing on how people living now view it? All societies change in this manner. Old traditions are discarded when they become unpalatable to the people, but in order for that to occur people have to raise their voices against it.
As far as being amused by people not knowing what they're talking about goes, I guess I can agree to an extent? But that's perfectly normal. Being passionate about something, making mistakes and learning from them is just another part of growth.
Having nothing to talk about because we should only let the experts speak would make for a very boring social life.

Well, sure it could be that I don't share links with America, but I don't get passionate about this topic really.
I myself would never get a circumcision or circumcise my kids, but I consider this to be free choice.
Again, I think there are things that parents do to their kids that are way worse for their health (like feeding them soda as if it were water) and people don't bat an eye... Why circumcision then?

 

[FGFlann]

Well, sure it could be that I don't share links with America, but I don't get passionate about this topic really.
I myself would never get a circumcision or circumcise my kids, but I consider this to be free choice.
Again, I think there are things that parents do to their kids that are way worse for their health (like feeding them soda as if it were water) and people don't bat an eye... Why circumcision then?

I could just as easily ask why not circumcision? As long as they do not contradict, one view does not preclude the other. If someone who feels strongly about soda and its ill effects on health wants to act against it they can and have raised the issue. It is for this very reason that the United Kingdom now has additional taxes on soda.

 

[JellyPerson]

I am American and I have a clean uncircumsized cock. Thank you for asking.

 

[RHOPKINS13]

Again, I think there are things that parents do to their kids that are way worse for their health (like feeding them soda as if it were water) and people don't bat an eye... Why circumcision then?

Because circumcision permanently amputates part of their body, and in America is usually done when the child is too young to consent or defend himself.

I consider routine infant circumcision to be nothing less than sexual assault, and should be illegal. Nobody would "look the other way" and continue to allow it to happen if you were to sexually assault a baby, the same should happen for circumcision.

What makes my blood boil is these parents that continue to say "my child, my choice." No, it's not. It's HIS penis, HIS choice!

 

[Eddypikachu]

Well, sure it could be that I don't share links with America, but I don't get passionate about this topic really.
I myself would never get a circumcision or circumcise my kids, but I consider this to be free choice.
Again, I think there are things that parents do to their kids that are way worse for their health (like feeding them soda as if it were water) and people don't bat an eye... Why circumcision then?

The fight against obesity by getting kids and adults to eat healthier in america is a thing thats been going on for years
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3440873
https://www.aafp.org/news/obesity/20100517fed-initiatives.html
You probably wouldnt have know since youre not living in America, but this issue has already been raised a long time ago and there have been great efforts in improving the eating habits of children and adults in America like making school lunches healthier, giving them knowledge about healthy eating habits, and doing physical activity for at least 30 minutes a day.
And inregard to circumcision it is very much possible to be campaigning for two or more things at the same time.

 

[SG854]

Well, sure it could be that I don't share links with America, but I don't get passionate about this topic really.
I myself would never get a circumcision or circumcise my kids, but I consider this to be free choice.
Again, I think there are things that parents do to their kids that are way worse for their health (like feeding them soda as if it were water) and people don't bat an eye... Why circumcision then?

So should they not talk about circumcision if they don't talk about obesity?

So if they don't care about one issue then they can't care about other issues? So should people not fight for Women's rights if they don't fight for Trans rights? Or what about any other type of rights. Theres always going to be something someone is not fighting for, so should people then never fight about anything then. Its a never ending loop. Even if they fought for one thing and not the other, the world would be better off then doing nothing at all.

What your tying to do is reduce the significance of circumcision because you think something else is worse out there that you think people aren't talking about much. Even if circumcision isn't worse than obesity, its still better off people talk about it then saying nothing at all regardless of if they care about other issues. And who's to say we don't care about obesity?

 

[sarkwalvein]

@Eddypikachu
It doesn't show up /s (hides behind some wall before rocks start raining due to the bad fat shaming joke)

I mean, good to see America is taking good steps to improve the health of their citizens.

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What your tying to do is reduce the significance of circumcision because you think something else is worse out there that you think people aren't talking about much. Even if circumcision isn't worse than obesity, its still better off people talk about it then saying nothing at all regardless of if they care about other issues. And who's to say we don't care about obesity?

Well, don't accuse me of trying to reduce its significance in some evil way. (thus I am kind of reducing it nonetheless, but it was not the plan)
I was just stating the I don't have any strong emotions in this topic, I don't find it as awful as many of you I guess.
Though I agree that I was being a bit closed minded regarding how strong other people feel about it. (the reason I liked both yours and FGFLann's comment, I agree with them)

 

[comput3rus3r]

The video didn't even mention the botched circumcisions that also happen. like the documented case where the babys' penis was mutilated beyond repair and they decided to turn him into a transgender woman. Not surprisingly the boy committed suicide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer