Should There Be Tougher Gun Laws?

[Jamstruth]

I think you're missing the point. Engert was saying "the Constitution" was obsolete ... I was just wondering what other parts he thinks are outdated and need to be abolished.

And for the record, your country had legal slavery, too. It was England that established slavery in the Americas. And England beat us in getting rid of it by a whole 32 years (1833 vs. 1865), mostly because they didn't need it anymore because they could just buy what they needed from the American south where the economy depended on slaves. That's why England nearly entered the American Civil War on the side of the Confederacy ... to keep the cheap slave-produced goods coming.

I'm not the one arguing that a 200 year old document can't be "outdated" though. When did I say I agreed with all the decisions my ancestors made? Britain is guilty of all 3 of those examples I gave. Do I agree with them? Not in the slightest. Would I support a 200 year old document just because "Its been the cornerstone of our country forever" even if I considered its contents to be wrong? Hell no.

For an example. I run a company. We're using the same 20 year old computer system we had when the company started up. I've changed a few things but not much. Do I keep using it when it becomes ill-fit for purpose for tradition? No. I change it out for something that makes more sense. I think what Engert meant was that your constitution needs a serious review to see if any of it needs to change. This can be done by referendum to ensure not vital rights are removed from you and nothing is changed without majority support of the populace.

 

[Engert]

I think you're missing the point. Engert was saying "the Constitution" was obsolete ... I was just wondering what other parts he thinks are outdated and need to be abolished.

It doesn't matter what we think. Guns are part of our DNA and are here to stay. That's the reality.

 

[Jamstruth]

- Double Post so SNIPP -

 

[Janthran]

Someone I know was at that Oregon mall shooting. She told me that pretty much everyone in the mall was prepared for something like that happening.


Stricter gun laws? No.
If it's illegal to have guns, only outlaws will have them.

 

[Sicklyboy]

[...]Guns are part of our DNA and are here to stay.[...]

No they're not. If you want to make the argument that they're part of our culture, our society, then make that, even though that's a shoddy argument. They're not part of our DNA. Literally or figuratively, that's a crappy claim to make.

 

[Engert]

No they're not. If you want to make the argument that they're part of our culture, our society, then make that, even though that's a shoddy argument. They're not part of our DNA. Literally or figuratively, that's a crappy claim to make.

Ok. You wanna bet? If we're still alive in 50 years i will pay you $1000 (via Paypal) if all guns are banned in America.

 

[Sicklyboy]

Ok. You wanna bet? If we're still alive in 50 years i will pay you $1000 (via Paypal) if all guns are banned in America.

If I cared enough I'd bet you right now that there is no gun in my DNA.

 

[Engert]

Maybe not in yours. So you're 2 out 10 people who don't have guns in this country.
What about the other 8? Try to convince them.

 

[Engert]

I didn’t vote for him but I respect him for being realistic.

We won’t prevent them all but that can’t be an excuse for not to try.

U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people

 

[BlueStar]

Well if it has sense to have police in Jr. High/High School, why not elementary school? We're talking police officers here, not marines. I don't know how UK police are armed but here, ours carry a handgun, taser, pepper spray, and handcuffs. Yes, they wear bullet proof vests, under their uniforms. I don't think the teachers should be taught and armed, because then they're taking vigilante law enforcement into their own hands, or they're working two jobs at the same time. Nowhere did I ever say a teacher should be trained. I said a police officer should be staffed in every school. Learn to fucking read before you jump to rash conclusions like that.

I pointed out some people were talking about teachers being armed, I never said you were saying that, maybe you should take your own advice and read posts before replying?

Police over here are not armed, aside from a small number of specialist units.

 

[Sicklyboy]

I pointed out some people were talking about teachers being armed, I never said you were saying that, maybe you should take your own advice and read posts before replying?

Police over here are not armed, aside from a small number of specialist units.

It seemed like an extremely odd tangent to go on when replying to my statement then.

Police here are all armed, pretty much all to the extent I said - handgun, taser, pepper spray, handcuffs, vest under uniform. There are specialist divisions (S.W.A.T. for example) that are even more armed.

 

[Engert]

Guns. More guns.

I am working on an anti-matter gun so i can create black holes for self defense and to get justice by protecting the honor of my family.
It's all about having an edge on the enemy. Whoever has the biggest gun wins.

 

[Sicklyboy]

Guns. More guns.

I am working on an anti-matter gun so i can create black holes for self defense and to get justice by protecting the honor of my family.
It's all about having an edge on the enemy. Whoever has the biggest gun wins.

Having the bigger stick doesn't mean shit if the other guy swings first.

 

[Engert]

They'll have to get passed my lawn which is booby trapped with anti-matter devices, thus falling into a black hole.
And i am going to leave the front door open while leaving my wallet and iPad visibly on the living room table so i can lure them in.
I don't believe in window shades. They block my view.

 

[no_chocobo]

This conversation. Again. Ugh fine I'll do it.

There was a study done that showed that most criminals are more afraid of armed civilians than law enforcement. If we take that fear from them, do you think they will commit more crimes?

Banning guns will also not prevent gun violence. If I wanted to buy a handgun it will take me a MINIMUM of 2 weeks, usually longer. OR I can head a few miles south into Detroit, and pick up a totally unregistered handgun RIGHT NOW. Banning certain drugs does not make them go away, why would banning guns make them go away?

 

[BlueStar]

NRA blames violent videogames and films for shootings, calls them 'filth'

While he was blaming the lack of guns in schools a protestor held a sign reading "NRA KILLS OUR KIDS". Another protestor is bring hauled out now.

 

[BlueStar]

This conversation. Again. Ugh fine I'll do it.

There was a study done that showed that most criminals are more afraid of armed civilians than law enforcement. If we take that fear from them, do you think they will commit more crimes?

Banning guns will also not prevent gun violence. If I wanted to buy a handgun it will take me a MINIMUM of 2 weeks, usually longer. OR I can head a few miles south into Detroit, and pick up a totally unregistered handgun RIGHT NOW. Banning certain drugs does not make them go away, why would banning guns make them go away?

The reason you can do this is because more legal weapons = more illegal weapons. I wouldn't have the first fucking clue how to go about getting an illegal gun in the UK.

 

[xist]

This conversation. Again. Ugh fine I'll do it.

There was a study done that showed that most criminals are more afraid of armed civilians than law enforcement.

Link to the study/research?

 

[Hanafuda]

Link to the study/research?

Professors James D. Wright and Peter Rossi surveyed 2,000 felons incarcerated in state prisons across the United States. Wright and Rossi reported that 34% of the felons said they personally had been “scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim”; 69% said that they knew at least one other criminal who had also; 34% said that when thinking about committing a crime they either “often” or “regularly” worried that they “[m]ight get shot at by the victim”; and 57% agreed with the statement, “Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.”

(James D. Wright & Peter H. Rossi, Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms [1986]. See Guns and Public Health: Epidemic of Violence or Pandemic of Propaganda? by Don B. Kates, et. al. Originally published as 61 Tenn. L. Rev. 513-596 [1994]).

 

[BlueStar]

Wasn't there armed security at Columbine at the time of the massacre there? Do the NRA not know that, or are they deliberately ignoring it when pushing to make Kindergarten Cop a reality?